This game needs better DPS feedback

[WinterLuna]

There are DPS guides all over the internet that take two minutes to look through and check if your rotation is correct. There are simple guides, and crazy in-depth guides telling you your BiS and every single cool down you can use and when to use it. Having something implemented in game isn't going to help any more than these guides do. If someone doesn't care about their DPS, then they will simply ignore whatever they implement in game.

For the people that do care, they most likely parse themselves, read detailed guides and practice their rotations.

If someone doesn't care about their DPS, nothing will make them care, whether it's an in game feature or not.

[Kaurie]

There are DPS guides all over the internet that take two minutes to look through and check if your rotation is correct. There are simple guides, and crazy in-depth guides telling you your BiS and every single cool down you can use and when to use it. Having something implemented in game isn't going to help any more than these guides do. If someone doesn't care about their DPS, then they will simply ignore whatever they implement in game.

For the people that do care, they most likely parse themselves, read detailed guides and practice their rotations.

If someone doesn't care about their DPS, nothing will make them care, whether it's an in game feature or not.

I am not sure if things are so black and white. While people who care more will naturally go out of their way to learn more, that doesn't mean that people wouldn't care if they saw they are performing poorly. Having in-game feedback showing that you are underperforming may provide enough incentive for some players to improve. There will still be the top min-maxers and the people who auto-attack watching netflix, but there are a great many more people who fall in between those two categories.

[WinterLuna]

I am not sure if things are so black and white. While people who care more will naturally go out of their way to learn more, that doesn't mean that people wouldn't care if they saw they are performing poorly.

I understand that, but most people who give ANY care about their DPS will have already looked up a guide or rotation. If you want to play half decently, you can't just make one up, as most classes have a clear rotation or priority system. It's honestly not that hard to tell if you're performing badly. The aggro meter gives a pretty good idea if you really are under performing. I have seen black mages as 7 or 8 on the aggro meter while bards have been 3 or 4 in the same party, and when watching them, have realised they're doing something wrong or just have awful gear.

I don't know, I just don't think adding anything else is going to make a difference. From what I've seen, most people haven't even attempted SSS.

[Kaurie]

I don't know, I just don't think adding anything else is going to make a difference. From what I've seen, most people haven't even attempted SSS.

Personally, I dislike SSS. I've done it a few times and it is a novel thing - but it's ultimately useless. Clearing the dummy has no bearing on clearing the content. That aside, I think having DPS feedback realtime (my personal preference is a parser) is great for while you are leveling, learning and running dungeons. You'll see how your DPS improves as you change around how you play, and you'll see how your DPS compares to other players. This will help you develop good DPS habits as you level, as opposed to developing poor habbits for the first several hundred hours of gameplay - get to 60, get 210+ ilvl and go whack and SSS dummy and lose and wonder why - or clear it but still have no idea how to actually execute that damage in an encounter - or have no idea how you can help raid DPS by timing support more appropriately.

I know of quite a few people who work to improve their dps quite a lot, but still pull fairly low DPS considering (not as low as you sometimes see in DF, but under 10th percentile on FFLogs kinda low).

[_slowpoke_]

The aggro meter gives a pretty good idea if you really are under performing.

For the millionth time, no, it does not. Abilities that drop enmity or reduce its generation exist, and good players will usually use them (plus, they are required in endgame content). Tank DPS and healer DPS cannot be measured by threat, either. It also doesn't tell you anything in situations with more than one target. Enmity is not an indicator of DPS performance and it never was. Please stop spreading this nonsense.

[WinterLuna]

Snip

I didn't say it could be "measured" nor was I referring to end game content or multiple targets, so please don't try to invalidate what I said based on those points.

If you're using an enmity reducing skill, its common sense to realise that's why you're low on the aggro meter. That's clearly not what I was referring to. I was referring to people who are under performing (as you even quoted) and noticing that personally. If your DPS is really that bad like the OP is describing you wouldn't even need to use an enmity cool down.

My point was, based on my experience, that bards were clearly out DPSing a black mage which was also blatantly obvious on the aggro meter. The black mage was casting random spells and using Blizzard at full mana, and his gear was pretty bad.

If you're really that bad, yes, the aggro meter will show it. You can try to invalidate me all you like, but I've seen it multiple times for myself. The parse numbers people threw out also proved it. I never said it measured DPS, I said it gave a good idea. If you're a monk against 3 bards and you're 8th on the aggro meter without using an enmity reducer, you don't need to be parsed to know you're not doing very well.

[_slowpoke_]

I didn't say it could be "measured" nor was I referring to end game content or multiple targets, so please don't try to invalidate what I said based on those points.

Ok, so you're completely backpedaling and putting multiple constraints on your own assertion (plus relying on information that the enmity bar does not provide). My point still stands: the enmity bar and DPS performance have barely any correlation, and the former should never be taken as any indicator of the latter, so please stop asserting that it is the case, you are wrong.

[WinterLuna]

Ok, so you're completely backpedaling and putting multiple constraints on your own assertion (plus relying on information that the enmity bar does not provide). My point still stands: the enmity bar and DPS performance have barely any correlation, and the former should never be taken as any indicator of the latter, so please stop asserting that it is the case, you are wrong.

No, you are wrong. They have a pretty strong correlation unless you're raiding and people are forced to use enmity reducing skills.

Putting constraints on my own assertion? I'm not going to argue something I wasn't even talking about in the first place when I was talking about personally noticing if you are underperforming which the aggro meter gives a pretty good idea of.

Please stop asserting your case, you are wrong.

[Pells]

For the millionth time, no, it does not. Abilities that drop enmity or reduce its generation exist, and good players will usually use them (plus, they are required in endgame content). Tank DPS and healer DPS cannot be measured by threat, either. It also doesn't tell you anything in situations with more than one target. Enmity is not an indicator of DPS performance and it never was. Please stop spreading this nonsense.

If you put me in a group with two dps, with one doing 1500dps and the other doing 800... I'm pretty sure the enmity meter and buff display would be good enough to show me which is which.

[WinterLuna]

If you put me in a group with two dps, with one doing 1500dps and the other doing 800... I'm pretty sure the enmity meter and buff display would be good enough to show me which is which.

Also this.