DRK balance

[FallenWings]

...
My biggest disappointment with this game has to be how stats are handled... Tanks now get to use VIT and STR, but I'd still much rather have had a situation where most Jobs make use of a different combination of stats; Dark Knight could be VIT/PIE (more MP), Paladin VIT/MND (stronger Cure they never use because the developers are too lazy to justify that Conjurer cross class option), Warrior VIT/STR (since they're really the DPS tank). Wouldn't work with the way gear is handled in this game though, people would get upset for the same reason people disliked Esoterics, might have been something with the new materia slots...

If this is under the current Stat weights, then PLDs and DRKs would lose something like 40% of their attack power, further cementing WAR/WAR compositions. PLD? I doubt they would give up half their attack power to sometimes use Cure more effectively. Nor would DRKs choose to lose 40% across the board to use Dark Arts a couple more times.

This will also break several skills, lifesteals, and aggro generation just to accommodate Cure. Having more MP for DRK only really just increases the amount of MP in their opener. As far as I know, your rate of mana regeneration doesn't increase with a larger MP pool. At best you can fit in what, 1 or 2 more Dark Arts?

You'd either bloat loot tables with 'PLD gear or DRK gear' or bloat stats on Tank Gear which either make no sense, or are really just pointless clutter. If you throw AP on PIE and MND, then WAR loses out by having stats affect it the least, putting them below DRK and PLD(not really) for loot consideration.

[Nalien]

If this is under the current Stat weights, then PLDs and DRKs would lose something like 40% of their attack power, further cementing WAR/WAR compositions. PLD? I doubt they would give up half their attack power to sometimes use Cure more effectively. Nor would DRKs choose to lose 40% across the board to use Dark Arts a couple more times.

No way am I suggesting this under the current stat weights... You'd swap STR for MND or PIE, Paladin would get half its attack power from MND instead of STR, Dark Knight from PIE instead of STR. They've essentially gotten around Paladin using MND with Clemency, though.

Only real issue is gear bloat and gear set space. With Esoterics we already had separate sets for each Job, I'm essentially suggesting that just with the stats being different, rather than it being solely for glamour. With the way gear is locked out though, that certainly wouldn't be a popular change. Still, I'd rather see Jobs gear for different stats, rather than the current sorry state of everyone gearing essentially the same thing... I actually find myself preferring sets like Esoterics just because the glamour system is so flawed for tanks/healers...

Pretty much how 1.23 worked, come to think of it... Every Job used to have two main stats impacting their attack powers, things feel dumbed down these days...

[Derio]

Either reduce MP cost from dark arts or increase maximum MP pool.

[MagiusNecros]

I always relish in telling my friends that Dexterity only adds damage to physical ranged casters and Ninja and has nothing to do with evasion. Or how the spells of DRK scale off of STR(or is it VIT now?) instead of INT. Their reactions are priceless since we all play DnD. Which really just illustrates how ability scores in this game are handled. It's atrocious. Linear stat progression up the ass.

[Ashkendor]

I always relish in telling my friends that Dexterity only adds damage to physical ranged casters and Ninja and has nothing to do with evasion. Or how the spells of DRK scale off of STR(or is it VIT now?) instead of INT. Their reactions are priceless since we all play DnD. Which really just illustrates how ability scores in this game are handled. It's atrocious. Linear stat progression up the ass.

It's different than D&D = it's atrocious? Okay. Honestly, I like how simple our stats are. The stat system does what it's supposed to do. There's plenty of people that don't want to have to sit comparing tank pieces for evasion and blocking and a bunch of other crap. We already have Accuracy caps to worry about and from there it's just optimizing for damage. Even if we had more options due to differing secondary stats (or even primary stats), the number crunchers out on reddit would simply figure out the optimal setup and everything else would fall by the wayside. It's better that dex doesn't affect tank skills at all because tanks can't need roll on dex accessories anyway. That's the reason they finally fixed Vitality; tanks weren't even using their designated accessories and that was a fundamental flaw with the way the system was designed.

[MagiusNecros]

It's different than D&D = it's atrocious? Okay. Honestly, I like how simple our stats are. The stat system does what it's supposed to do. There's plenty of people that don't want to have to sit comparing tank pieces for evasion and blocking and a bunch of other crap. We already have Accuracy caps to worry about and from there it's just optimizing for damage. Even if we had more options due to differing secondary stats (or even primary stats), the number crunchers out on reddit would simply figure out the optimal setup and everything else would fall by the wayside. It's better that dex doesn't affect tank skills at all because tanks can't need roll on dex accessories anyway. That's the reason they finally fixed Vitality; tanks weren't even using their designated accessories and that was a fundamental flaw with the way the system was designed.

What you mean to say is they homogenized the jobs even more by making them rely on just one stat and the only slight customization you have is strength on accessories and secondaries. Which for tanks is even less considering many won't even look at Parry due to how wonderful it is. If they just want you to rely on one stat why have any other stat at all? Same reason with all those elemental resistances sitting at 280ish and the same with your physical resistances sitting at 0 for everything.

I'm glad you like it simple but it offers little room for diversity in playstyle. Which you had in several other RPG's. FF included. Hell FF Explorers does a better fucking job at being a what they referred as a lite version of FFXI and everything is simply fantastic?

[Belhi]

Look, people keep talkin about needing more MP or making Dark Arts cheaper.

If SQ gave Dark Knights more MP or made Dark Arts cheaper they would have to either put a higher CD on Dark Arts, limiting the flexibility of its use or nerf the effect Dark Arts has.

Why?

Because Dark Knights are currently balanced against the other tanks with the MP cost vs the effectiveness of Dark Arts in mind. Dark Arts isn't something your supposed to be spaming. Its supposed to be a periodic boost to existing skills. Managing that boost is part of the skill of playing a DRK.

What you mean to say is they homogenized the jobs even more by making them rely on just one stat and the only slight customization you have is strength on accessories and secondaries. Which for tanks is even less considering many won't even look at Parry due to how wonderful it is. If they just want you to rely on one stat why have any other stat at all? Same reason with all those elemental resistances sitting at 280ish and the same with your physical resistances sitting at 0 for everything.

I'm glad you like it simple but it offers little room for diversity in playstyle. Which you had in several other RPG's. FF included. Hell FF Explorers does a better fucking job at being a what they referred as a lite version of FFXI and everything is simply fantastic?

Honestly that really has little to do with DRK balance. However Yoshi P has said that he prefers to offer variety by offering more job types. Very few of the Jobs play that similar to each other so stats doesn't really cause homogenization except perhaps with gear availability and with a computer game, particularly one balanced like this, having clearly defined Jobs, abilities and roles makes the game more accessible and keeps the game well balanced. More customisation of abilities and power almost always has a negative impact on balance and no one likes it when their favourite class/Job feels weaker than the others.

That said, FF14 could do with a bit less rigidity and some things like Parry definitely need fixing. While they said they don't intend to offer anything notable in Job customisation, I wouldn't say they would never do it cause with game design things are always changing and its not like they can just keep giving us more skills to find space on the skill bar for every 10 levels.

[MagiusNecros]

Back on topic however I hope by the expansion they really give DRK a look over and not hope making some slight change to Parry will fix all their problems.

Especially when it comes to OT role and Living Dead as a skill. Such a drain on the healer and if full HP total isn't restored the DRK just dies and then you have to waste more MP to res the DRK if you aren't already dead and usually if I have to use Living Dead the healer is well dead and it's because DPS failed a mechanic big time.

You can macro it but it's much more efficient to have a healer buddy with a vocal channel open. Things go a lot smoother. But in Pug's? Good luck.

[AlphaFox]

I am tired but I really do not see the complaints some of you are bringing up. Unless your blowing Dark Arts every 3 secs when main tanking then of course your going to have issues with your MP but I am currently running Midas Savage (We cleared Midas 5 last week but had some issues and started late) and can Tank it with zero issues along with our Warrior OTing. Living dead has saved us a few times and if you know to use the right skills in conjunction such as convalescence your healers can easily squeeze more DPS out and still top ya off right when you going into Walking Dead. I say keep them as they are.

[silentwindfr]

as the tank get more and more hp i think the fact to bring back the dark knight to 100% hp is crazy, he continue to take damage and if the healer can't get you back full life you are done for. personally i avoid to use it, i prefer die, it's more a bother than a help. only a white mage can really deal with it efficiently. i feel they need to reduce the goal of 100% hp to 60-75% hp for be more realistic.
because soo far, LD can kill you and that not normal for a cd of last hope.

indeed holmang make you unable to move, but at the end of holmang you will not drop dead because your healer (ast/sch) can't get you full life in time. plus, the warrior have a couple of skill for get back hp far more efficient than DRK. as tank i find LD too much a pain than being a CD of last hope...

other QoL that i want to see come is when you are out of fight the aura must'nt consume mana... it's idiot. we can still cut it, but since it cost more of 1200 of our mp for put it back is kinda pointless. and i still fail to understand why as dark knight we can't have dark aura that will drain life or mana of the enemy surrounding us... the mana regeneration can be a pain, especially with a white mage (while the pack pull) if it spam Holy, bye bye the mana since the enemy are stun and don't attack you. (and tell me don't use AoE, Holy generate tons of hate)