Feedback: (Melee) Limit Break

[Renault]

Hey everyone, my name is King Stefan from Balmung, Aether DC and I want to make a series of threads that cover the entire scope of my feedback for The Feast: Season 1. I'm going to be dividing my threads up by their topics, to give more concise and organized feedback so hopefully it can hit back to SE. My slight background: I have 800 matches played in The Feast and recently hit Gold today in Solo Queue. I main WHM and AST, so my point of view will be coming from that of a healer, though I feel like I have a good general understanding on the game and how it is, and perhaps should, be played. Now that introductions are out of the way...

I do not like or agree with the changes made to Limit Break (Adrenaline) in patch 3.26. The rate at which LB grows is way too high, and even those that never touch the box (Tanks, healers, ranged) can LB twice per match. That's too much. It is also very common for those with middle box control to limit break FOUR times per match (melee)! Now, let me say that IF LB HAS TO STAY IN THE GAME, ABSOLUTELY, IF IT MUST, that...

Tank, Healer, and Ranged LB's are all well tuned and balanced. They feel they have an impact without really deciding the game any more or less than other abilities.

HOWEVER...

Melee LB is WAY TOO STRONG. Only very skill healers (with multiple fending accessories) can live through a Melee LB at full life, and that is only if they do not have ANY stacks of heavy medal. It is absurd that this literal "One shot kill" ability that is very difficult to interrupt can be used FOUR TIMES A MATCH! This is on top of DPS burst CDs, and honestly there is just no way for a healer to be able to keep up.

Knowing that no matter how well you play, you are going to die, is not fun or engaging gameplay, and has absolutely no place in a competitive game format.

This change has also created the opposite effect as was intended. In a recent post, Yoshi P said this change was to make the game flow better, and end quicker. It has done just the opposite. What it has created is a game of near skill-less "hot-potato" like gameplay where the teams are just melee LBing back and forth, and you hope that yours is the team that melee's someone with stacks in the last seconds of the match to take home a win.

As for how I would change it, it comes down to this. Adrenaline needs to not only be reduced to its original growth rate, but Melee LB in particular needs to REALLY be reconsidered. My personal suggestion would be to give it a longer cast time, so that it is easier to interrupt. While it has been suggested to me and others that the damage should be reduced, I think that would make the ability pretty bad, and ultimately not worth it. However, in addition to this casting change: DAMAGE AMPLIFICATION CAUSED BY HEAVY MEDAL SHOULD NOT BE CALCULATED INTO LIMIT BREAK DAMAGE. It is one of the main causes of this "un-fun" and "un-skilled" gameplay. The fact that you can literally one-shot ANY class with 1 stack (non-tank) and any tank 5 stacks or higher is insane.

Thank you for reading, and please let me know what you think of my feedback, or if you agree, in this thread. I'd like for it to be an open discussion about Adrenaline(Limit Break) as it is currently in the Feast patch 3.26.

[RiceisNice]

IIRC, anything that increases damage taken and reduces damage taken affects LB (which is normally dealt as "true damage" for lack of a better explanation, which is why it goes through garuda's stoneskin and isn't affected by magic/physical (de)buffs, while ravana takes extra/less during scorpion/beetle stance respectively)

From a developmental standpoint, I'd imagine it'd be easier to revert the LB gains in combat, since heavy medal's debuff is considered the above. I'd rather them make it less frequent than lower it's effectiveness. Like any LB in general, it's supposed to be a game changer or a reversal of sorts, of course this won't be the cast if it happens 4 times in the course of a single fight.

[Exira]

I mean the fact that you can nearly one shot people with a no-skill-required button that is just given to you for standing around long enough blows my mind. Where is the skill in having something like this in arena style pvp. It's gimmicky and it's cheesy. Wolve's Den didn't have lbs unless a game went on for far longer than it ever should have and it was a much better mode because of it

[Renault]

Snip

To say something is "easier" for the devs to just not change it is a cop-out and does not belong in a competitive game format. If SE truly belives Limit Break spamming to be the height of skilled competition, then so be it. But to say "oh well its coded this way so it'd be too hard" Is just bad. If other games like CS:GO and LoL had that mentality, they'd be dead games.

[RiceisNice]

To say something is "easier" for the devs to just not change it is a cop-out and does not belong in a competitive game format. If SE truly belives Limit Break spamming to be the height of skilled competition, then so be it. But to say "oh well its coded this way so it'd be too hard" Is just bad. If other games like CS:GO and LoL had that mentality, they'd be dead games.

That's why I said the easiest course would be to undo the changes to LB, so it doesn't generate as fast. Reversals or skills that change the flow of the game shouldn't be so frequent, but you don't want to nerf soemthing like LB that it can't make those reversals in the first place. Even if you changed it so it specifically does not increase damage taken from LB, it's still a death sentence if they're under focus fire (on top of taking away from killing tanks more reliably, which was part of the reason why we even have something like stacking heavy medal).

[PotatoGirl]

I'll patiently wait for the day they do something to change adrenaline/melee LB. Until then I wont hold my breath.

But at the same time I don't see myself spending a lot more time on The Feast. It was a lot of fun when it first came out, now they've clipped the wings and its just 8 minutes of stress as a healer.

[Renault]

That's why I said the easiest course would be to undo the changes to LB, so it doesn't generate as fast. Reversals or skills that change the flow of the game shouldn't be so frequent, but you don't want to nerf soemthing like LB that it can't make those reversals in the first place. Even if you changed it so it specifically does not increase damage taken from LB, it's still a death sentence if they're under focus fire (on top of taking away from killing tanks more reliably, which was part of the reason why we even have something like stacking heavy medal).

I don't think reversals should be decided by an orange "I win" button, they should be decided by outplaying your opponents. Imagine is Nascar had the blue shells and bullet bills from Mario Kart? Nobody would really care about it, because you didn't really win the game due to you being better. You won the game because you press an "I win" button with a few seconds left on the clock.

[RiceisNice]

I don't think reversals should be decided by an orange "I win" button, they should be decided by outplaying your opponents. Imagine is Nascar had the blue shells and bullet bills from Mario Kart? Nobody would really care about it, because you didn't really win the game due to you being better. You won the game because you press an "I win" button with a few seconds left on the clock.

Neither do I. It should happen because of poor play being capitalized (having high medal stacks) or good, coordinated play (sycned burst), and counterplayed as such (having prompt reaction time with mitigation or shields). It was previously far from an i-win because any competent team would have proper precautions before the first LB even charges (and its typically the only melee LB a team will have unless they have complete control over center, and at that point it's a uphill fight). When you increase the frequency of it, you have less opportunities to prepare against it.

Truthfully, if heavy medal didn't affect LB damage, you're opting out one of the huge risks of heavy medal in the first place. An LB should be a kill on you if you aren't ready for it, but something like that shouldn't be available as frequently as it is now. It should be something that lands a decisive hit, not something that turns the game into hot-potato as you mentioned.

[Aramyth]

The most frustrating thing about the melee limit break is that there is little you can do to counter it. There is no room for a player to improve to counter it.

At least if I die because of a mistake I made, I can learn from it and become s better player.

[Exira]

The most frustrating thing about the melee limit break is that there is little you can do to counter it. There is no room for a player to improve to counter it.

At least if I die because of a mistake I made, I can learn from it and become s better player.

YES and they can just fetterward for it and there instantly becomes no counterplay to it. It's baaaaaad