Why is DRK so squishy and how do I stop it?

[KrenianKandos]

If he had grit up, mobs hitting harder in the area wouldn't really matter due to a full time -20% mitigation with similar defense cd rotations as PLD at this point. Alternatively PLD has to go through the same thing with no tank stance while DRK has it's passive -20%. Making DRK arguably better than PLD in mitigation at this particular point.

His gear is fine, assuming the truth was told. He'd be missing like 10-15 defense over all if he has full Calvary set in comparison to the gear drops from the sunken temple itself.

I'd be curious to compare shield blocks versus the passive -20% at that level. Say on an average, you block around 20% damage. Would that not, in essence, be equal? You're almost constantly blocking stuff, depending on type of shield you have as a PLD. So in that regard, I would think it would be awfully close and when PLD hits 40, that's when they become the better constant damage mitigator...

Now that I'm thinking about it, Qarn is the next one after Brayflox, isn't it? So yeah, the gear would be fine, in that regard....Hm. It would be lower but you could simply mitigate that with someone that pays attention to the damage influx.

Points noted. Guess the healer just dropped the ball on that one =)

[Rufalus]

I do /feel/ squishy as a DRK compared to my Warrior and I'm trying to figure out why.

For what it's worth, I remember feeling the same way when I was leveling DRK, in leveling gear. I think most jobs feel a bit subpar at first compared to ones we've been using longer. Warrior is also legit overpowered with its utility, dps and self recovery all being strong. But on a purely survival / mitigation check, I think Dark Knight is fine and similar to the other tanks. If you die whilst using all the tools at your disposal then it's probably a healer problem rather than the DRK job design.

[Krissey]

If he had grit up, mobs hitting harder in the area wouldn't really matter due to a full time -20% mitigation with similar defense cd rotations as PLD at this point. Alternatively PLD has to go through the same thing with no tank stance while DRK has it's passive -20%. Making DRK arguably better than PLD in mitigation at this particular point.

His gear is fine, assuming the truth was told. He'd be missing like 10-15 defense over all if he has full Calvary set in comparison to the gear drops from the sunken temple itself.

I didn't have full calvary. I had HQ Toadskin pants that are for tanks because I never got calvary pants to drop T_T

In addition - I never take Grit off but sometimes I mess up and Darkside falls off (That's the Black and Red Sword icon for +15% damage right? Drains MP? Sometimes I run out of mana and it drops off)

For what it's worth, I remember feeling the same way when I was leveling DRK, in leveling gear. I think most jobs feel a bit subpar at first compared to ones we've been using longer. Warrior is also legit overpowered with its utility, dps and self recovery all being strong. But on a purely survival / mitigation check, I think Dark Knight is fine and similar to the other tanks. If you die whilst using all the tools at your disposal then it's probably a healer problem rather than the DRK job design.

Sshhhh they'll hear you. Warrior is normal and fine. Totally cool job. Completely normal.

[Seku]

I'd be curious to compare shield blocks versus the passive -20% at that level. Say on an average, you block around 20% damage. Would that not, in essence, be equal? You're almost constantly blocking stuff, depending on type of shield you have as a PLD. So in that regard, I would think it would be awfully close and when PLD hits 40, that's when they become the better constant damage mitigator...

No, because shield does not always block and does not proct even 50% of the time. Grit is -20% damage taken to everything and will always work expect if the damage is mechanic damage (like falling to your death in titan, hitting a flame wall in coils, hitting enrage on bosses ect.). When they (PLD) hit 40, then yes they are arguably the better mitigation tank.

I didn't have full calvary. I had HQ Toadskin pants that are for tanks because I never got calvary pants to drop

Then the defense missing would have been around 15-20 roughly. Which can make a difference, but in the situation you were in, single group pulling from the sounds of it, it's not that big of a deal.

[Krissey]

No, because shield does not always block and does not proct even 50% of the time. Grit is -20% damage taken to everything and will always work expect if the damage is mechanic damage (like falling to your death in titan, hitting a flame wall in coils, hitting enrage on bosses ect.). When they (PLD) hit 40, then yes they are arguably the better mitigation tank.


Then the defense missing would have been around 15-20 roughly. Which can make a difference, but in the situation you were in, single group pulling from the sounds of it, it's not that big of a deal.

I tell you what I think it is. I think it's because I'm used to WATCHING a Paladin. I was leveling a healer from 30-52 with the same Paladin who was really good...and I saw how their HP just didn't budge. So then I go in as a DRK and my HP just gets chunked out. So watching this paladin that just doesn't take hits, really, barely every had any panic moments for pop all CD's mega-heal this guy...and then i get on my DRK and I just see me go from 100 - 50% in two hits I'm like "Why am I so squishy...??"

[ashwich]

I tell you what I think it is. I think it's because I'm used to WATCHING a Paladin. I was leveling a healer from 30-52 with the same Paladin who was really good...and I saw how their HP just didn't budge. So then I go in as a DRK and my HP just gets chunked out. So watching this paladin that just doesn't take hits, really, barely every had any panic moments for pop all CD's mega-heal this guy...and then i get on my DRK and I just see me go from 100 - 50% in two hits I'm like "Why am I so squishy...??"

Sometimes you feel the difference when a healer keeps the tank topped off vs a healer who's dpsing til last possible minute. May or may not be the case for you, but it's a thing.

Oh, for what it's worth. ROH applies STR down debuff. Shouldn't make nearly as much difference on trash though.

[Februs]

Oh, for what it's worth. ROH applies STR down debuff. Shouldn't make nearly as much difference on trash though.

Actually, that does make a pretty big difference, especially on trash.

Pld's low enmity gen practically forces them to rotate RoH to maintain hate on trash mobs, unlike War and Drk who can pop a couple of Overpower/Unleash and be green as grass. A good Pld will make sure that their rotation targets as well, so the RoH debuff gets spread around. At 20 seconds per debuff, roughly 3-4 targets can be inflicted with a physical damage reduction during (varying on skill speed, personal skill, and lost time caused by extending circumstances) on top of blinds caused by Flash and whatever mitigation skills the Pld has active at the moment.

Now, the debuff itself wouldn't normally be all that great because it only effects physical dmg, but the vast majority of trash mob attacks are physical (including auto attacks). Magic wielding enemies are actually quite rare by comparison. In most dungeons, you're roughly looking at about 1 in every 3 enemies who use magic as opposed to physical, and even then, some of them still have a physical auto attacks that can be mitigated. Individually, it's not much, but it adds up pretty quickly and scales with the size of the pull.

[Sarcatica]

Actually, that does make a pretty big difference, especially on trash.

Pld's low enmity gen practically forces them to rotate RoH to maintain hate on trash mobs, unlike War and Drk who can pop a couple of Overpower/Unleash and be green as grass. A good Pld will make sure that their rotation targets as well, so the RoH debuff gets spread around. At 20 seconds per debuff, roughly 3-4 targets can be inflicted with a physical damage reduction during (varying on skill speed, personal skill, and lost time caused by extending circumstances) on top of blinds caused by Flash and whatever mitigation skills the Pld has active at the moment.

Now, the debuff itself wouldn't normally be all that great because it only effects physical dmg, but the vast majority of trash mob attacks are physical (including auto attacks). Magic wielding enemies are actually quite rare by comparison. In most dungeons, you're roughly looking at about 1 in every 3 enemies who use magic as opposed to physical, and even then, some of them still have a physical auto attacks that can be mitigated. Individually, it's not much, but it adds up pretty quickly and scales with the size of the pull.

It's not as terrible as you actually point out. For what it is worth, let's just say that -10% STR = -10% damage taken, I doubt it but for easy calculation put it at 10%.

Let's say total HP is 3k. Each hit will do 300 damage per mob, 3 mobs = 900 damage. -10%STR = 810 damage. 1 cure is enough to top someone to full. It's even more trivial if you use CD since they aren't additive.

TLDR: Rage of Halone is not going to matter that much for fluff damage (autos mostly), difference is if you are getting physical tank buster, then RoH is great to mitigate spike damage.

[ashwich]

well the reason I said it's not a big difference is what Sarcatica said.

Specifically, at lower levels, your health pool is so low, what 10% dmg you reduced won't reflect very well there from a healer PoV.
At higher levels, in most dungeon settings you end up pulling 2-3 packs of mobs anyway. being able to rotate ROH on 3 of them hardly makes a difference given the grand scheme of things. (you can pick which ones you want your str down on, to make a bigger impact however, it is good practice)

[Lyth]

On large trash pulls on DRK, DA DP and DA DD render you nearly invulnerable. Dark Mind trivializes pulls with harder hitting caster mobs like sprites which the other two tanks can sometimes struggle with (remember the Security Command room in Stone Vigil?) During the time in between, the self healing from Abyssal Drain while Blood Price is up is amazing.

You have more AoE moves at your disposal than any other tank, two of which are oGCD, and the other two of which are better than their counterparts on other tanks. Unleash is better than Flash. Abyssal Drain is more versatile than Overpower.

For speed-running, you can sprint between mob sets and primarily use MP moves to hold aggro and dps while your TP recovers. And then there's Plunge. Glorious Plunge.

All three tanks are capable of doing the more challenging content in this game effectively, and each has their strengths and weaknesses. But dungeons and AoE tanking? No tank does it better than DRK. You can't stick to using a few skills and expect to get by, though. You need to make use of your entire toolkit and plan your MP usage in advance.