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Thread: 4.0 Ideas

  1. #21
    Player MagiusNecros's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
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    3,205
    Character
    Bastilaa Shan
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    Do you want to give Paladins a Hallowed Ground for every physical tankbuster if they come every 30s or more? Because that is completely broken.
    They pretty much already have it with the one Tankbuster during the first part of Sephy Ex. You can just block all the damage. All 10k+ of it.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    12,863
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    I'd like to see them go back to the fundamentals of their class/job identities before moving on to "new" stuff. That's especially the case for tanks, and further... for Gladiator/Paladin.
    (0)

  3. #23
    Player Yuni_Queen's Avatar
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    Mar 2016
    Location
    Gridania
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    278
    Character
    Yuni Captain
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    What do you mean Shurri? Going back to fundamentals by further enchancing 2-50 skills? or just adding new abilites with effects comparable to pre-HS skills?

    Becuase in both cases, it is wrong idea. Enchancing already enchanted skills will be waste, since they are simply good. In second case, it would be savage to add new skills, while all my hotbars are currently used. i am using shift, alt, ctrl, everything. there is simply enough skills already. until SE will add new Hotbars. Or new way to trigger skills, becuase my fingers don't reach six and seven on keyboard, or at least it would be problematic in use.
    (0)

  4. #24
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    @Yuni_Queen
    No, I don't wish to add any new abilities -- if anything, I'd rather trim a few. Personally, I like to try to generate the most possible points of decision or routes thereof with as few buttons as possible. Or, to put it another way, I like to maximize the interaction or gameplay caused by each button, click, or keystroke. For that purpose, I'd be willing to scrap numerous potencies, and even abilities, as long as most of the enjoyed gameplay remains intact and what is added more than makes up for anything lost.
    Just by sake of adjacent information, I prefer versatility over specialization; unless a spec contributes to that above ratio, I'd rather have one "spec" that can do everything, with many different equally viable "play-styles" therein. As it stands, each job has only one real playstyle. There are a couple differences that contribute less than 1% dps that can stand as 'play-style' preferences, such as staying out of WM until EA/IJ, even if it means popping a Bloodletter without WM's modifier, instead of just until the next oGCD or Straighter Shot, but optimal play leaves very, very little in question or to preference. I'd personally like to see multiple "ways" to play an Archer or BLM, where the faintly leading output 'style' is the one that requires the most from the player. That applies far more to DPS than tanks, or further to healers, at that point, but the same principle stands. It's for those reasons that I tend to dislike the cooldown system we have, even if I do at first enjoy memorizing when to pop which CD for which TB; ideally, each is popped as near as possible to its CD while maximizing the mitigation it causes, as to maximize its mitigation over time -- fundamentally that's plenty enjoyable, but the strategy of syncing arsenal to content only goes so far when the timings for said arsenal are absolutely rigid, and the content itself will often change pace with gear and strategy. In many ways I'd prefer resource systems or the like, in a sort of economy of mitigation, investment and consumption, or just anything that's a bit more flexible yet decisive, allowing for multiple paths to reach the same goal, with more nuanced advantages and disadvantages. I feel like that would be a huge opportunity for tanks especially, and one that hasn't been tapped into at all yet. I'm not saying I want all tank abilities to function in that manner, but some at least should, and its a lucrative avenue to walk down while looking for class uniqueness or identity among tanks. Coincidentally, I first started thinking about these systems when ability names for Dark Knight were first released (and before I had read their very familiar tool-tips).

    Only loosely related... I personally feel that physical level and "optimal level" gearing should have remained; to dice up character progression each into separate classes unrelated beyond a few required cross-class skills such that a player who just defeated Bahamut must now face bloody battle against level 10 Diremites seems a bit... off, though not so much as the sheer disadvantage given to leveling and gearing up alt jobs in a game that touts its ability to "play all classes on a single character".

    What I mean is that I'd like to go back to their traits and actually make something unique out of them, aiming for distinct class identity based on gameplay as it immediately appears and feels, rather than mostly just through its alignment against particular fights. In other words, fewer key, much more thematic traits. While some jobs would certainly benefit more from this than others (e.g. the more dull ones), I think it is both helpful and perhaps even necessary in the long run to really know what is intended and/or ideal for each class and be willing to craft unique gameplay components for each class to that end.

    For instance, try to think of any given class as an assemblage of particular mechanics or themes leading cohesively to a combined class identity. I imagine Gladiator as being a pesky, hardy, and resourceful opportunist, excelling at controlling and eluding enemy pressure. To this end (resourcefulness) his Sword-based and Shield-based abilities might be on separate GCDs (Sword and Board), he might be able to hasten queued weaponskills upon target enemy attacks attempted against him (Contretemps/Countertempo), etc.

    Paired with any variety of changes like native cleave (anything that looks like a cleave, is to some degree a cleave), enhanced block control, and/or enhanced utility in the form of stuns and pacifies, this could go as far as creating ideal play in manipulating enemy attack timings to best grease your own rate of attack, sometimes even drawing out of range momentarily to prep a counter, TP control, and management of blocks, dodges, and parries, while perhaps using bucklers for a quick, oGCD low-effect Swipe or tower shields for a much larger effect and/or slight knockback that clips into the following sword GCD. Abilities that would generally be used on CD with little additional thought could be trimmed or revised. Abilities with a flat and at first unnoticeable effect like Rampart can be given later and are also likely revised. In turn, give something like Guard as a shield weaponskill with a variable cooldown for guaranteeing blocks early on for added control and thematic value, and move Shield Swipe or a similar ability up. Bulwark itself could easily be a trait, allowing for a sustained, no-CD Guard at diminishing value (or initially reduced based on the amount by which your block roll fell short, and steadily increasing), or become a more interesting ability or proc such as by creating Shield variants of your (normally Sword only) weapon skills while active/procced.

    In addition to that, let it pick from a variety of fundamental cross-class traits from other jobs, such as Pugilist's Feather Foot (trait) -- which in turn synergizes well with the ability -- or Archer's Trained Precision (from Heavier Shot, now working to allow criticals to increase critical chance further into the combo or whatnot), Lancer's Drive Chain / Weapon Rush, Marauder's Bloodbath (trait), Rogue's Blindside or Assassination, etc. Inversely, Pugilist for instance could likewise take traits learned from Gladiator, such as Countertempo to pair into off-tanking or leveling, or any of the others.

    The jobs themselves would then have further trait opportunities, though they'd of course lose some cross class trait ops. Paladin for instance might have a trait allowing blocks while casting, or have its spells factor from the greater of either its physical or magic damage and duplicate a portion of other main stats unto Mind, while carrying a native Cover trait (reducing damage dealt to allies behind you), etc.
    (3)

  5. #25
    Player Yuni_Queen's Avatar
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    Mar 2016
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    Gridania
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    278
    Character
    Yuni Captain
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    +1 for you then.

    That would change mechanics and overall gameplay by 180 degrees, but i would really love to see that happen.

    Throwing something fresh like that would negate "i-need-new-class" syndrom, which is happening mostly after overfeeding with current class. Ability to choose specialization is a good point i would actually like to see in official feedback.
    Any chances it will reach SE? Or will give them a thought about expanding game mechanism at all?
    (0)

  6. #26
    Player
    Ultimatecalibur's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    2,737
    Character
    Kakita Ucalibur
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 86
    Quote Originally Posted by MagiusNecros View Post
    They pretty much already have it with the one Tankbuster during the first part of Sephy Ex. You can just block all the damage. All 10k+ of it.
    Uhm, Chesed hits for about 20k and is followed up by a roughly 15k Triple Trial. If you are seeing the tank taking 0 damage from it one of 2 things is happening: a Paladin used Hallowed Ground or a Scholar cast a crit Adloquium and the shield absorbed the damage remaining after the tank used cooldowns.

    If a well-timed Shelltron could zero out Chesed then the tank buster would be incredibly easy to handle.
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player Violette's Avatar
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    Apr 2012
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    545
    Character
    Eonkhui Malaguld
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    MAKE DARK KNIGHT GREAT AGAIN


    GIVE US AN ABILITY THAT APPLIES A DEBUFF TO AN ENEMY WHICH WILL GIVE US A REGEN EFFECT WHILE THEY ARE AFFLICTED BY IT!
    GIVE US A DEFENSIVE ABILITY BLOCKS MAGIC ATTACKS

    GIVE US THE ABILITY TO INCREASE OUR DAMAGE AT THE COST OF OUR HP!
    (0)

  8. #28
    Player
    FinalWolf's Avatar
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    Apr 2015
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    401
    Character
    Rex Inferorum
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Violette View Post
    MAKE DARK KNIGHT GREAT AGAIN


    GIVE US AN ABILITY THAT APPLIES A DEBUFF TO AN ENEMY WHICH WILL GIVE US A REGEN EFFECT WHILE THEY ARE AFFLICTED BY IT!
    GIVE US A DEFENSIVE ABILITY BLOCKS MAGIC ATTACKS

    GIVE US THE ABILITY TO INCREASE OUR DAMAGE AT THE COST OF OUR HP!
    Would rather have power slash increase damage 5% for 20 seconds. HP drain is too risky.
    (1)

  9. #29
    Player Violette's Avatar
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    Apr 2012
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    545
    Character
    Eonkhui Malaguld
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by FinalWolf View Post
    Would rather have power slash increase damage 5% for 20 seconds. HP drain is too risky.
    I mean sure it's not like the class is based around forms of risk/reward.....
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player
    FinalWolf's Avatar
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    Apr 2015
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    401
    Character
    Rex Inferorum
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Violette View Post
    I mean sure it's not like the class is based around forms of risk/reward.....
    Do you trust pug healers in the DF to keep you top off with the drain?
    (0)

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