Pros and Cons of each Healer Role

[Ghishlain]

Sigh u my good friend need to stop doing table math and face reality

Follow these when doing ur tests

1) log into ur character
2) cast spells
3) move when ur cast bar is just above 3/4
4) watch how u can get the spell off without finishing the full spell cast

Like i said im always stutter casting on casters... Yes ur table math is correct... But in game it does not work like ur table math u can cast and move at the same time and its been like this since ARR released spell speed just makes STUTTER STEPPING much much easyier to pull off.. I can iceskate and cast at the same time before i even finish my cast off

Ur maths is correct on paper... But u seriously need to test it in game and it will blow up ur table math

There's nothing to blow up my table math, my table math is right. I know what stutter stepping is.

If you said at the beginning "Lightspeed allows me to cast while moving" we wouldn't be have this discussion in the first place. Instead you claimed that Lightspeed:

U do know that spell speed effects lightspeed right ? Which allows u to get a lot more casts off

"Which allows u to get a lot more casts off" implies reducing GCDs (it doesn't). Maybe that's a language barrier issue there but that's why the discussion blew up like it is - because you failed to give correct context.

[EDIT]

Yhisa has the tendency to make up excuses or claim that we are "misunderstanding" the original post when responded on immediately - Which you've probably noticed on the last page and in the more recent "stat weight" topic. Thus I went for the approach where it is either: 1) Actually misunderstood, or 2) talk themselves into a corner. I believe it's far less tiresome and time consuming like this.

Hmmm, that's a good point too. Heh >>; Might need to try that in the future in a different thread if this continues (which it probably will).


[EDIT2]

Screw it search Fang_90 on twitch and ill show u stutter stepping >.> cant believe i need to do this just to prove u wrong

I don't need to see anything. I skate all the time while casting Stoneskin on AST in between pulls while auto running. I'm not sure what stutter stepping has to do with giving you more casts with Lightspeed, so if you want to explain that better, I'm all ears (eyes?)

[HPDelron]

I don't need to see anything. I skate all the time while casting Stoneskin on AST in between pulls while auto running. I'm not sure what stutter stepping has to do with giving you more casts with Lightspeed, so if you want to explain that better, I'm all ears (eyes?)

Just for the sake of being a contrarian I'll pipe in here. I can't speak for Yhisa but it seems obvious to me that Lightspeed lets you get more casts off in many practical situations. This is because there are a great deal more circumstances where you can get off an instant cast than a standing one. In cases where you must move or get hit by an unacceptable AoE you can get a cast off with Lightspeed but not normally. In cases where can stand to cast but your targets are moving such that you can't reliably count on range, you must move to get off the heal in a meaningful fashion.

While I'm not well acquainted enough with Savage to say how common those conditions are there. Even in normal modes and primals these conditions are common enough to be a meaningful consideration. The idea that instant casts and extra mobility do not also translate to more heals cast more effectively only really holds in the case you and your target are both essentially static.

Sure it doesn't get you more GCDs but when the chips are down in an emergency I'm not sure GCDs are always acting as the real bottleneck.

Omega aoe damage trick....where did that omega come from lmao. I assume he means lightspeed + gravity spam which in itself is probably worse than it sounds. You save MP and 0.5seconds cast time but lose 25% damage on every mob it hits. Not sure if it's worth it.

No clue how to do 3 cards tho. Maybe with spear somehow. No clue.

At the start of the encounter have any 30s base card in spread with extension up. Cast it and draw/redraw for another 30s card.
You now have a 30s card and a 60s card ticking. Draw is on the usual 30s CD.
Time Dilate the 30s card.
You now have a 45s Card and a 60s Card ticking.
When Draw's timer is up they're at ~15s and ~30s each.
Cast a new card and you can Celestial opposition all 3. Giving you ~35s, ~20s, ~35s on the duration at that time. Though in practice these duration will probably be off by a second or two because human reaction times and server input delay just aren't going to get you 0-MS uses the instant everything is up.

That said it's kind of a cute gimmick and not a real power boost. Your card CDs are what they are and it's basically a whole lot of bending over to get an extra 5s worth of value out of CO and it probably isn't any better than fishing for expansions.

[Ghishlain]

Just for the sake of being a contrarian I'll pipe in here. I can't speak for Yhisa but it seems obvious to me that Lightspeed lets you get more casts off in many practical situations. This is because there are a great deal more circumstances where you can get off an instant cast than a standing one. In cases where you must move or get hit by an unacceptable AoE you can get a cast off with Lightspeed but not normally. In cases where can stand to cast but your targets are moving such that you can't reliably count on range, you must move to get off the heal in a meaningful fashion.

While I'm not well acquainted enough with Savage to say how common those conditions are there. Even in normal modes and primals these conditions are common enough to be a meaningful consideration. The idea that instant casts and extra mobility do not also translate to more heals cast more effectively only really holds in the case you and your target are both essentially static.

Sure it doesn't get you more GCDs but when the chips are down in an emergency I'm not sure GCDs are always acting as the real bottleneck.

This is a perfectly reasonable way to look at Lightspeed. It allows the AST mobility while handling their healing responsibilities. You'll actually find this is a very good use of Lightspeed in a fight like Sephirot EX (in fact, that entire fight feels tailored to the AST kit).

Whether this is the context Yhisa was trying to go for, who's to say (well, it's not now that we know what Yhisa was trying to say in a previous post above).

At the start of the encounter have any 30s base card in spread with extension up. Cast it and draw/redraw for another 30s card.
You now have a 30s card and a 60s card ticking. Draw is on the usual 30s CD.
Time Dilate the 30s card.
You now have a 45s Card and a 60s Card ticking.
When Draw's timer is up they're at ~15s and ~30s each.
Cast a new card and you can Celestial opposition all 3. Giving you ~35s, ~20s, ~35s on the duration at that time. Though in practice these duration will probably be off by a second or two because human reaction times and server input delay just aren't going to get you 0-MS uses the instant everything is up.

That said it's kind of a cute gimmick and not a real power boost. Your card CDs are what they are and it's basically a whole lot of bending over to get an extra 5s worth of value out of CO and it probably isn't any better than fishing for expansions.

Funny thing is this isn't really a trick that any AST should be actively shooting for as it requires a heavenly dose of RNG in your favour to have it happen. It is something to be aware of and if it naturally occurs, use it to its full advantage. Trying to actively aim for this is akin to ASTs trying to actively aim for Expanded Balance all the time - you're going to end up wasting cards which lowers your overall raid utility. Some raid utility is better than 0 raid utility.

So yeah, I count this less of a trick and more of something to consider with enough foresight.



Gravity + Lightspeed

Gravity Normally
@00.00s - Begins to cast first Gravity
@03.00s - First Gravity resolves, begin to cast second (total potency - 200 X multi-enemy multiplier)
@06.00s - Second Gravity resolves, begin to cast third (total potency - 400 X multi-enemy multiplier)
@09.00s - Third Gravity resolves, begin to cast fourth (total potency - 600 X multi-enemy multiplier)
@12.00s - Fourth Gravity resolves, begin to cast fifth (total potency - 800 X multi-enemy multiplier)

Gravity w/ Lightspeed
@00.00s - Cast first Gravity (total potency - 150 X multi-enemy multiplier)
@02.50s - Cast second Gravity (total potency - 300 X multi-enemy multiplier)
@05.00s - Cast third Gravity (total potency - 450 X multi-enemy multiplier)
@07.50s - Cast fourth Gravity (total potency - 600 X multi-enemy multiplier)
@10.00s - Cast fifth Gravity (total potency - 750 X multi-enemy multiplier) [Assuming you get the Lightspeed in for easy math]
@12.50s - Begin casting sixth Gravity

Gravity Normally is 800 potency at the 12s mark for a total 66.67 potency per second (plus multipliers which is the same across the board)
Gravity w/ Lightspeed is 750 potency at 10s mark for a total of 75 potency per second (plus multipliers)
Gravity w/ Lightspeed is 750 potency at 12s mark for a total of 62.5 potency per second (plus multipliers)

In theory this looks better to do Gravity + Lightspeed when you consider number of casts within the 10s period of Lightspeed but since you can't begin to cast a sixth Gravity until the 12.5s mark and won't get it until the 15.5s mark, you might as well count Gravity w/ Lightspeed as 5 Gravity's over 12s, leading to the above. Therefore it's better not to use Lightspeed with Gravity.