Pros and Cons of each Healer Role

[Yhisa]

.... Light speed reduce ur MP cost of spells aswell i swear ur both really over sighting the AST kit

Lightspeed + ewer or aether malipulation = free AoE healing if u stack spell speed enjoy ur 5th instant spell before light speed wears of, unless u want to extent it with celestrial opposition which gives more mana regen and more light speed casts

Yeah let see a WHM do that xD appart from the free assize WHM have to burn MP to use medica 1/2 or Cure 3 where ast can Burst heal the entire party without spending any MP and throw out a AoE regen too with 0 cost

Like i said AST require u to combo ur kit if u do this No other healer can beat u

And if i have speat and mech /bard already blow cooldowns throw it on urself so u van burst Sooner next time

Please stop over sighting the AST kit as a whole

[Ghishlain]

.....



Show me on this tooltip where it says the spells you cast are, in your words:

.... ast can Burst heal the entire party without spending any MP and throw out a AoE regen too with 0 cost

or

... when ast does the same there burst is much higher then WHM in terms of AoE healing and dont eat up mana either

You actually had it right in the beginning of your condescending post.

.... Light speed reduce ur MP cost of spells aswell i swear ur both really over sighting the AST kit

But it doesn't reduce the MP cost to 0.

And again, the original comment wasn't about 0 MP costs (wherever the heck you got that from anyway)

The original comment was towards this quote you had:

U do know that spell speed effects lightspeed right ? Which allows u to get a lot more casts off

Which is, literally, UNTRUE.

Consider the following:

Lightspeed is 10s duration as per above tooltip.It reduces cast times by 2.5s to a minimum of 0 since you can't cast backwards in time (if only!). Let's also assume we have enough SpS to have a GCD of 2.30s.

With Lightspeed
@00.0s - First spell is casted and resolved
@02.3s - Second spell is casted and resolved
@04.6s - Third spell is casted and resolved
@06.9s - Fourth spell is casted and resolved
@09.2s - Fifth spell is casted and resolved
@10.0s - Lightspeed Wears Off
@11.5s - Sixth spell is casted.
Total of five spells resolved just after Lightspeed wears off and you're starting your sixth cast.

Without Lightspeed
@00.0s - First spell is casted.
@02.3s - First spell is resolved. Second spell is casted.
@04.6s - Second spell is resolved. Third spell is casted.
@06.9s - Third spell is resolved. Fourth spell is casted.
@09.2s - Fourth spell is resolved. Fifth spell is casted.
@11.5s - Fifth spell is resolved. Sixth spell is casted.
Total of five spells resolved in the same duration.

Yes, the EFFECT of the spells are happening 2.3s faster, but you don't get "more casts off" which to me implies you're getting more GCDs like Pressence of Mind would give you. You just happen to instant casting the spells and not gaining any GCDs in the process (again, Gravity is the exception to this but then you're taking a 25% attack penalty in the process when you use Gravity with Lightspeed)

Now if you said "Lightspeed gives the AST temporary mobility while healing!" then yes, everyone would agree with you. But you didn't. If you also said that Lightspeed reduces the MP cost of abilities (like you correctly stated initially) and not "casts spells for free" (like you incorrectly stated), we'd also take you more seriously.

Really, you need to learn to be logical and factually correct. No one is going to take your opinion seriously if its marred in incorrect information that you continue to spread fail to explain yourself properly. I can appreciate that maybe English isn't your native language but at least try to seem like you're making the attempt to improve both your language skills and your knowledge before, and this is going to be condescending as crap, you run your mouth.

So, flat out saying it now: You're wrong.

Eh, I kind of wanted to squeeze whatever knowledge out of Yhisa, but this works

I hate to be that passive aggressive person, but given the comment I made above I guess it wouldn't hurt here. We've both frequent these forums long enough to know a lot of stuff Yhisa says is factually incorrect and I can recall at least three to four instances within the last few weeks that have made my eyes roll at the comment. I try to ignore it and correct it when I can but I completely dislike misinformation, especially when it's presented in such a condescending and/or passive aggressive way. Right now Yhisa reminds me of those people who have the mentor crown but don't actually know what the heck they're doing and just white knight the crap outta AST when it doesn't need any white knights.

I do know what you're trying to aim for and we've probably had similar argument styles with other posters in the past >>; I guess just leave this one to me for now. lol.

I like your posts, but sadly I see a lot of people failing to understand what you point out.

Thank you, I try .-. Sometimes it's such a chore and I feel like I'm far too wordy for my own good and then the point gets away from me but concise has never been my strong suit. I'm working on it though.

Triple post cause on mobile

I know what im talking about because my warrior is always trying to get me to burn MP i always come out of fights after HUGE pulls and still remain at 100% mp and this is doing the mega hot trick, lightspeed/gravity trick dealing high AOE damage and insane healing whilst staying in cleric stance

Litterally come to my server on phoenix and i will show u the OPness of AST just whisper Miyu Shun and u be like wtf

I literally don't need to do this because I already know how powerful AST is and don't need to be shown any tricks from you because I already know them. I already consider diurnal AST more powerful than WHM and we don't need condescending and misinforming post to show people of this. Instead what they need to shown are the differences in the kits and where AST excels and where WHM excels and people can judge from there which kit they feel is more powerful or suitable for them.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

I hate to be that passive aggressive person, but given the comment I made above I guess it wouldn't hurt here. We've both frequent these forums long enough to know a lot of stuff Yhisa says is factually incorrect and I can recall at least three to four instances within the last few weeks that have made my eyes roll at the comment. I try to ignore it and correct it when I can but I completely dislike misinformation, especially when it's presented in such a condescending and/or passive aggressive way. Right now Yhisa reminds me of those people who have the mentor crown but don't actually know what the heck they're doing and just white knight the crap outta AST when it doesn't need any white knights.

I do know what you're trying to aim for and we've probably had similar argument styles with other posters in the past >>; I guess just leave this one to me for now. lol.

Yhisa has the tendency to make up excuses or claim that we are "misunderstanding" the original post when responded on immediately - Which you've probably noticed on the last page and in the more recent "stat weight" topic. Thus I went for the approach where it is either: 1) Actually misunderstood, or 2) talk themselves into a corner. I believe it's far less tiresome and time consuming like this.

[Yhisa]

0s = free cast
2.5 = free cast
5.0 = free cast
7.5 = free cast
10 = over

make your casts 2.49 seconds and you get

0 = free cast
2.49 = free cast
4.98 = free cast
7.47 = free cast
9.96 = free cast
12.45 = over

Granted, that assumes like 0 latency, so you\\'d need a bit more SS to compensate. No? You only need Lightspeed active as a buff when you start the cast, not finish the recast. Right?

ADD the 5% speed u gain from Diurnal sect aswell... U can drop ur cast and recast to 1.50 cast and 2.20 recast if u throw an arrow on yourself

Iv already done it a few times and got 5 casts of remeber that there is delays when u cast spells within the game (u know the cast and move trick) so ur final 5th cast goes off anyway if i knew how to make videos and upload it i would have shown the prove of it which will then change the statement of Astrologian a lot

[Kaurie]

ADD the 5% speed u gain from Diurnal sect aswell... U can drop ur cast and recast to 1.50 cast and 2.20 recast if u throw an arrow on yourself

Iv already done it a few times and got 5 casts of remeber that there is delays when u cast spells within the game (u know the cast and move trick) so ur final 5th cast goes off anyway if i knew how to make videos and upload it i would have shown the prove of it which will then change the statement of Astrologian a lot

This suggests you should always be able to get 5 off

[Yhisa]

Remeber u can do all the math u want on paper i would be wrong

But in game and how it works im not wrong u can get 5 casts off , this is how players move and cast at the same time without even being 3/4 of the casted spell... Im always doing it on ever caster job... Running around using blizzard 2 like im iceskating , or stutter stepping when i cast malefic 2

[Yhisa]

Triple post cause on mobile

I know what im talking about because my warrior is always trying to get me to burn MP i always come out of fights after HUGE pulls and still remain at 100% mp and this is doing the mega hot trick, lightspeed/gravity trick dealing high AOE damage and insane healing whilst staying in cleric stance

Litterally come to my server on phoenix and i will show u the OPness of AST just whisper Miyu Shun and u be like wtf

[Yhisa]

.....table math nonsense

Sigh u my good friend need to stop doing table math and face reality

Follow these when doing ur tests

1) log into ur character
2) cast spells
3) move when ur cast bar is just above 3/4
4) watch how u can get the spell off without finishing the full spell cast

Like i said im always stutter casting on casters... Yes ur table math is correct... But in game it does not work like ur table math u can cast and move at the same time and its been like this since ARR released spell speed just makes STUTTER STEPPING much much easyier to pull off.. I can iceskate and cast at the same time before i even finish my cast off

Ur maths is correct on paper... But u seriously need to test it in game and it will blow up ur table math

[Ghishlain]

Sigh u my good friend need to stop doing table math and face reality

Follow these when doing ur tests

1) log into ur character
2) cast spells
3) move when ur cast bar is just above 3/4
4) watch how u can get the spell off without finishing the full spell cast

Like i said im always stutter casting on casters... Yes ur table math is correct... But in game it does not work like ur table math u can cast and move at the same time and its been like this since ARR released spell speed just makes STUTTER STEPPING much much easyier to pull off.. I can iceskate and cast at the same time before i even finish my cast off

Ur maths is correct on paper... But u seriously need to test it in game and it will blow up ur table math

There's nothing to blow up my table math, my table math is right. I know what stutter stepping is.

If you said at the beginning "Lightspeed allows me to cast while moving" we wouldn't be have this discussion in the first place. Instead you claimed that Lightspeed:

U do know that spell speed effects lightspeed right ? Which allows u to get a lot more casts off

"Which allows u to get a lot more casts off" implies reducing GCDs (it doesn't). Maybe that's a language barrier issue there but that's why the discussion blew up like it is - because you failed to give correct context.

[EDIT]

Yhisa has the tendency to make up excuses or claim that we are "misunderstanding" the original post when responded on immediately - Which you've probably noticed on the last page and in the more recent "stat weight" topic. Thus I went for the approach where it is either: 1) Actually misunderstood, or 2) talk themselves into a corner. I believe it's far less tiresome and time consuming like this.

Hmmm, that's a good point too. Heh >>; Might need to try that in the future in a different thread if this continues (which it probably will).


[EDIT2]

Screw it search Fang_90 on twitch and ill show u stutter stepping >.> cant believe i need to do this just to prove u wrong

I don't need to see anything. I skate all the time while casting Stoneskin on AST in between pulls while auto running. I'm not sure what stutter stepping has to do with giving you more casts with Lightspeed, so if you want to explain that better, I'm all ears (eyes?)

[HPDelron]

I don't need to see anything. I skate all the time while casting Stoneskin on AST in between pulls while auto running. I'm not sure what stutter stepping has to do with giving you more casts with Lightspeed, so if you want to explain that better, I'm all ears (eyes?)

Just for the sake of being a contrarian I'll pipe in here. I can't speak for Yhisa but it seems obvious to me that Lightspeed lets you get more casts off in many practical situations. This is because there are a great deal more circumstances where you can get off an instant cast than a standing one. In cases where you must move or get hit by an unacceptable AoE you can get a cast off with Lightspeed but not normally. In cases where can stand to cast but your targets are moving such that you can't reliably count on range, you must move to get off the heal in a meaningful fashion.

While I'm not well acquainted enough with Savage to say how common those conditions are there. Even in normal modes and primals these conditions are common enough to be a meaningful consideration. The idea that instant casts and extra mobility do not also translate to more heals cast more effectively only really holds in the case you and your target are both essentially static.

Sure it doesn't get you more GCDs but when the chips are down in an emergency I'm not sure GCDs are always acting as the real bottleneck.

Omega aoe damage trick....where did that omega come from lmao. I assume he means lightspeed + gravity spam which in itself is probably worse than it sounds. You save MP and 0.5seconds cast time but lose 25% damage on every mob it hits. Not sure if it's worth it.

No clue how to do 3 cards tho. Maybe with spear somehow. No clue.

At the start of the encounter have any 30s base card in spread with extension up. Cast it and draw/redraw for another 30s card.
You now have a 30s card and a 60s card ticking. Draw is on the usual 30s CD.
Time Dilate the 30s card.
You now have a 45s Card and a 60s Card ticking.
When Draw's timer is up they're at ~15s and ~30s each.
Cast a new card and you can Celestial opposition all 3. Giving you ~35s, ~20s, ~35s on the duration at that time. Though in practice these duration will probably be off by a second or two because human reaction times and server input delay just aren't going to get you 0-MS uses the instant everything is up.

That said it's kind of a cute gimmick and not a real power boost. Your card CDs are what they are and it's basically a whole lot of bending over to get an extra 5s worth of value out of CO and it probably isn't any better than fishing for expansions.