A new tank with a question about combos.

[Traeus]

Hello, all! I'm newer to this game but not new to tanking in general and I have a question.

I recently got into a friendly argument with a fellow tank in my FC about Halone. They claimed that Halone gains the added increased enmity outside of its combo and should be used upon first pull because Fast Blade doesn't gain much enmity as it is a weak attack, but the tooltip for the ability doesn't reflect this.

If that is true, wouldn't just spamming Halone out of combo be better than doing the full combo? That doesn't sound like what the game wants me to do. Savage Blades tooltip is worded the same as Halone and I've been told it's enmity increase is NOT applied when used out of combo, so why would Halones work that way?

I also think that if Halone does not apply it's enmity increase out of combo then Flash would be a better starter (after shield lob of course) before starting the combo.

Can anyone confirm how Halone actually works?

[Killtastic]

Rage of Halone does apply it's enmity increase regardless of Combo, but it's 160 attack potency lower to that increase Enmity modifier means much less. The enmity increase on ability that do that is an increase multiplier of the normal enmity generated by an attack of that damage. Keeping in mind that i do not know the exact mutipliers it works kind of like this. (this is purley an example and not real numbers)

Attack dealing 100 damage = 100 enmity
Rage of Halone out of combo deals 100 damage = 300 enmity
Rage of Halon in combo deals 260 damage = 780 enmity

Again I have no idea what the actual numbers look like, but that's the basic premise. Shield oath also adds an enmity multiplier combo once you learn it.

As for snatching threat at the beginning of a pull on a single target I would suggest Shield lob followed by your combo. Flash does blind them which is notable for minor damage mitigation and some threat generation, but your combo is better.

[Launched]

The enmity increase is available without the combo, but since enmity is based off your damage it still ends up being weak. An uncomboed Halone is 100 potency with a 5x modifier, so 500 potency of enmity while a comboed Halone is 260x5=1300 potency. Savage Blade is 350 vs 700. Fast>Savage>Halone is 150+700+1300=2150, 3 Halones would be 500x3=1500. Flash by itself is 600 potency, no multiplier.

On trash pulls with more than one mob you should always use Flash after Shield Lob. On single target, Shield Lob should generate enough enmity to let you start your combo straight away, but if you're super undergeared Flash is your highest enmity generation in a single skill (unless you pop Fight or Flight and use Halone, but you REALLY shouldn't do that). And before you get Halone, spamming Flash generates more enmity than Fast>Savage over and over.

[SpookyGhost]

Fast Blade [150 enmity] -> Savage Blade [200 potency x 3.5x enmity multiplier = 700 enmity] -> Rage of Halone [260 potency x 5x enmity multiplier = 1300 enmity] = 2150 enmity
Rage of Halone (without combo) [100 x 5x enmity multiplier = 500 enmity] -> Fast Blade [150 enmity] -> Savage Blade [200 potency x 3.5x enmity multiplier =700] = 1350 potency

As long as you don't lose hate before Savage Blade you'll gain more damage and enmity by starting with Fast Blade in 3 GCDs. Starting with Rage of Halone will actually pull ahead on the 4th combo by only 50 potency and then it just gets worse and worse. Rage of Halone does retain the enmity multiplier even when uncombo'd, however it's worse for damage and enmity. You also don't apply the STR down debuff if you do it uncombo'd.

So. Fast Blade is better. Rage of Halone uncombo'd isn't horrible, but it's just not necessary.

Make sure you're also using Fight or Flight when pulling bosses as it is a massive boon to your enmity generation.

[Traeus]

Is there a site that has all the multipliers? This information is super useful. Thanks guys!

[SpookyGhost]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ipliers_table/

[Shurrikhan]

Your best pull is almost always going to be Shield Lob straight into combos, with Flash only used where absolutely necessary and/or to maximize mitigation via blind. Keep in mind that your auto-attacks are also a factor, dealing 33.3 * weapon speed potency per hit. Opening with Rage of Halone barely hits for more and gives any beneficial actions dealt to you (buffs or healing) by your team a greater window by which to pull off you before you've hit the other enemies [i.e. "face-pull" time]. If the healer tends to instantly heal you, Lob, Flash, and go from there. If they open with Cleric and heal only as is necessary, you might well be able to go without using Flash at all, or at least use it only as mitigation. That said, it's better to use Flash sooner than later in the sense that the more mobs still up, the more good that Blind is doing.

The only time I use an uncombed Rage of Halone is when I'm standing at where an add will spawn and my team needs to kill that mob instantly, or on sprinting mass pulls where I don't want to waste mana for Flash on just one enemy nor use up so much TP as with a Shield Lob. (I have technically used Savage Blade uncomboed on a new add just to grab its attention in the part of a second before it picks its target for a special attack, after which it will be locked onto me for long enough for it to be killed even if someone else technically has enmity at death.)

Shield Lob = 120 x 4 >> 480 enmity [iirc]
Rage of Halone = 100/260 x 5 >> 500/1300 enmity
Savage Blade = 100/200 x 3.5 >> 350/700 enmity
Flash = 600 enmity AoE (but zero damage, unless you consider the mitigation done as healer offensive GCDs gained)

[Traeus]

This tells me that while I was correct in the order (flash is indeed better than an uncombo'd Halone when pulling, especially if you need blind up, otherwise just use the combo), he was technically correct about the multipliers. Interesting.

That table pretty much tells me all I need to know about enmity generation at this point, too. Thanks a LOT for that.

[Rawrz]

Fun tidbit I just tested: Cleric Stance has a multiplier of 10%, because of the base damage increase. This really surprises me, because I had thought it would have a greater enmity boost to "punish" healer dps and by relation have a multiplier outside of damage like tanks.... nope. So when you are beginning to out aggro the DPS/Tank without casting any heals... you're probably out dpsing them. This shocks and abhors me, because it's very common on pulls and still happens frequently on single target bosses. xD That expert duty roulette life. (Heals actually have an enmity decreaser, they are just so large that it barely gets down to a reasonable number.)

[Zari]

Fun tidbit I just tested: Cleric Stance has a multiplier of 10%, because of the base damage increase. This really surprises me, because I had thought it would have a greater enmity boost to "punish" healer dps and by relation have a multiplier outside of damage like tanks.... nope. So when you are beginning to out aggro the DPS/Tank without casting any heals... you're probably out dpsing them. This shocks and abhors me, because it's very common on pulls and still happens frequently on single target bosses. xD That expert duty roulette life. (Heals actually have an enmity decreaser, they are just so large that it barely gets down to a reasonable number.)

Not entirely sure what this has to do with the thread but yeah, it's known that healers generally can out-dps tanks after the tank-dps nerf and VIT changes