The Omega

[Rocl]

We don't have any explicit information that the Ascians have helped any advanced civilization on a grand scale like the Allag. However, it's entirely possible whispering in the ears of Allag about Dalamud and the Heart of Sabik isn't much different than Lahabrea whispering in Gaius' ear about the Ultima Weapon. The First, Second, Fourth and Fifth Astral Era histories are large unknowns, but in the Third, Sixth, and Seventh we do have an "advanced civilization" in each one. Allag, Mhach, and Garlemald.

Should the Ascians be in direct opposition to Allag imprisoning Primals--there's a contradiction. An unknown gang of Ascians specifically gave Allag "the means to entrap" Bahamut. There wasn't much room for interpretation in Tiamat's words.

I'm a subscriber to Ascians definitely helped Solus with the conquering of Islabard just because of what it caused: a shitton of war. Grand wars seem to work favorably for the Ascians and their necessary "chaotic confluence." You elevate one people far above the others so that they seek out and subjugate the myriad masses then pull the rug out from under their Empire. They help you set up the Jenga tower just so they can knock it down. It's probably a case of it's easier to knock down one huge tower than a bunch of little ones-- I don't know I'm not a crazy semi-immortal in a black robe. All I know is the Ascians like conflict. Preferably with an increasingly dangerous arms race. They don't want one side to win, they just wanna ruin everyone's day.

As for the Mhach, that's even more conjecture on my part. The Ascians seem keen on helping people summon voidsent or summoning voidsent themselves. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. Probably something to deal with disrupting the aether of Hydaelyn, since so many voidsent love to feed on it and is easier to pull off than a Primal summoning. The three nations during the War of the Magi seemed to be pretty equally "advanced," but only the Mhach had something like the Void Ark. There must be some degree of aetherscience behind getting that to fly. The Nymians had their clockwork/stratagems and Amdapori their soulkin/conjury but it really feels like the Mhach were, well, the enemy.

Let us not forget white magic was invented in response to the use of black magic--the Mhachi had already began using the land's aether against their enemies. The magical arms race began with the Mhach! It is somewhat curious that in the Third and Seventh Era the advanced civilizations were 'technologically' advanced while the Sixth was 'magically.' Maybe it's an odd/even thing the Ascians do to keep things fresh. Fostering wars seems to be a big Ascian thing.

This does, of course, rather unceremoniously allow some "well then Solus, Xande, Thordans I & VII aren't all bad! it was those dastardly Ascians!" I... meant... to just post that bit about Tiamat and the Ascians knew exactly what the Allags were going to do with Dalamud... and that Bahamut wouldn't be considered an "elder primal" during the Third Astral Era (when he was captured by Omega)...

[Februs]

Should the Ascians be in direct opposition to Allag imprisoning Primals--there's a contradiction. An unknown gang of Ascians specifically gave Allag "the means to entrap" Bahamut. There wasn't much room for interpretation in Tiamat's words.

Of this there is little doubt; however, that does not mean that the Ascians did not eventually come to the conclusion that this was a mistake. The reason being that the result was the exact opposite of what they intended.

You're right to point out that there is a trend to be seen here. Each era ends with the fall of an advanced civilization. However, you're overlooking what happened before that fall occurred. We know from the Crystal Tower quest line that before the fall of the Allgan Empire, they enjoyed a very long time of peace and prosperity. We have no way of knowing how long this peace lasted, but it was long enough for the Allagan's to become complacent and start to stagnate as a civilization. Because of this, and because they lacked strong leadership, Amon cloned Xande, and Xande went on to try and finish the conquest he started in his first life. This caused several uprisings and, eventually, the cataclysmic attempt to store all of Dalamud's power within the Crystal Tower in a last ditch effort to open the portal to the World of Darkness.

Before that cataclysm happened, though, the Allagans were at peace and had more than they could ever need. Primal threats were at a minimum and any that did occur were likely quickly subdued. If it wasn't for Amon and Xande, it's entirely possible that the Allgan Empire would have just kept along without any conflicts whatsoever, sharing the warm light of civilization and boundless resources with everyone and anyone. Obviously, that would be unacceptable to an Ascian. With that in mind, it's very likely that they don't want to risk repeating what happened with the Allagans. To avoid the possibility of a future without Primals, it would make sense for them to withhold such technological support from any other civilization, no matter how warmongering that civilization is. The Garlean Empire, in particular, would seem like the last person they'd want to have such technologies, because they've already made it very clear that they are more than willing to destroy every primal they meet, as well as that primal's summoner in order to prevent any future summonings.

[Fenral]

If it wasn't for Amon and Xande, it's entirely possible that the Allgan Empire would have just kept along without any conflicts whatsoever, sharing the warm light of civilization and boundless resources with everyone and anyone. Obviously, that would be unacceptable to an Ascian. With that in mind, it's very likely that they'd want to avoid any such possibilities in the future, especially with a race of people who would be willing to completely snuff out any Primal threats by eliminating the entire summoning race.

Objection!

(bolded for emphasis)

The Allagan Empire reached its zenith long before our kind came into being.
In that glorious age, the Crystal Tower stood tall as the symbol of Allagan pride. Parents took their children there, that they might learn how the nigh limitless energy it produced brought prosperity to the whole empire.

That prosperity, however, bred decadence, and the empire began to show signs of stagnation. This decline was made all the more rapid for want of strong leadership.
In a matter of generations, the Allagan civilization became a pale shadow of its former self. Its once gleaming cities fell into disrepair, and its frontier lands were given over to the wilderness.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like an enduring, perfect society to me. Alas, their decline was a real, tangible event, not just paranoid fearmongering. It was also fairly short, as it took mere generations for the decline to become apparent.

Which actually makes it all the more interesting if the Ascians' original plan was to save the declining Allagan society, and it backfired.

[Februs]

Objection!

Sustained lol.

You are correct.It is highly unlikely that the Allgan empire would have endured had Amon and Xande not made an even bigger mess of things given that it was already starting to decline ... however you're also kind of proving the rest of my point lol.

Like I said, we were openly told that, at it's peak, the Allagan civilization enjoyed peace and prosperity across its entire empire (which, by definition, would include its subjugated states as well). That prosperity was brought on by a limitless energy supplied by the Crystal Tower and Dalamud. This means that the prosperity the Allagans enjoyed, no matter how brief, was in part supplied by the technology they received (and likely modified) from the Ascians (oops).

We also cannot say that it was a short time of prosperity. Doga specified that it lasted for "generations." Note the use of a plural. That means a minimum of two generations, at least, in a civilization in which the average lifespan was likely quite long (due to their extreme advances in science and magic. Regardless, even if it was a short time, which is unlikely, I doubt that the Ascians were happy about it. Given that they want to cause as much destruction and drain as much aether out of the land as possible, any amount of prolonged peace is a bad thing for them, and they probably don't want to risk this happening a second time with any other civilization.

In fact, I can totally see them engineering the downfall of the Allgan Empire just to put a stop to it. Given their penchant for manipulation, it's possible that they started manipulating the people to spread decadence in the populace. It's also possible that they were the ones who put the idea of resurrecting Xande into Amon's head in the first place. Who knows, but I think it's a safe bet that they were pretty happy to see the Crystal Tower destroy the entire civilization.