DF Tank Experience

[Marianno]

Dungeoning is a team effort in this game and I do respect that. My main is blm and its funny when I am in a dungeon with tanks who think blm aoe flares or ST dmg is not going to pull hate. As a tank, you should be using everything in your arsenal to keep hate. I am not going to lower my dmg because your playing poorly. Not saying this is OPs case but it is problematic. If you want to keep hate over me, then use everything in your arsenal. Go all out and you will not have these issues. Too many tanks stick to just hitting one enemy and not rotating the hate combos. Then there are tanks who try to tank in dps stances. Then there are tanks who will see what kind of dps are in party and will not use the tools given to them to be successful. This game gives you power and yet people refuse to go all out in every encounter. Me...I happen to be one of those blms who do use enochain/RS/LL/shields, the whole nine in almost every encounter if possible.

[winsock]

Hi OP,

Just wanted to comment that even as a lowbie GLD, keeping threat vs sync'd dps is possible even with 2 DPS going full power on 2 different mobs, but you may have some problems until you develop a good feel for the threat system and eliminating downtime between skill activations

Some advice based on your rant:
If a DPS indicates that they'd like you to pull faster (esp if they're not a MNK), odds are it's probably good feedback and you should probably work at improving your pacing.

Lastly, you won't please everyone all the time. You just won't. Increase your pace, and eventually you run into that healer who wants you to slow down because being at 50% MP terrifies them. Lol

[LegitChamp]

1 - Annoying, happens every now and then but if it happens all the time you should try to move a bit faster between pulls. As soon as a pack is dead I start heading towards the next. Typically the healer knows to stoneskin asap and everyone appreciates a clean quick run. Don't be reckless and keep an eye on the healer's mp, but no need to sit between pulls for a bunch of time either.

2 - Don't wait for mobs to gather, charge into the middle and flash flash (maybe a 3rd). If you are moving ahead quickly enough the dps is still trying to get in range as you flash. You can recover some MP at the end of the fight using that combo whose name I forget. If you are full on MP and are in the middle of a fight with multiple targets think about throwing out another random flash. DPS loss but might help hold onto the guys you haven't been focusing as much.

3 - I rarely experience this, but the above flash flash should be enough to keep it. If not, run out of aoe range and shield lob to keep enmity

4 - As a Dragoon I am constantly watching my enmity and switching targets as needed. Most DPS are too lazy to care, to my mind that makes them mediocre regardless of the damage they pull, but I doubt most would agree. That being said, you should be able to hold single targets with your enmity combo fairly well (low level PLDs do have a rough time I've recently learned). Mark your first target for extra help (hotkey it) if you need to (I never needed to until I started PLD).

5 - The worst.

6 - You should typically be able to hold aggro on two targets even if dps are attacking different mobs. Cycle your enmity combo like 1,2 on target x and 3 on target y, etc. I rarely have a problem keeping the entire pack on me after my initial two aoe pull and cycling enmity combos (or just dps combo). But PLD struggles in the pre-30s so if you have to mark and hope the dps care enough to switch targets. Bad DPS will ignore marks, but DFing you will encounter bad dps, such is life.

7 - Yep, everything is typically the tank's fault. Unfortunately, it is what you signed up for and why you usually get 2-3 comms when the run goes smoothly. Personally, I never let the stupid DPS die just to prove a point. If I am going to do that I might as well drop, tanks don't let their party members die even if they are morons. Again, moving faster between pulls will help a lot with this, most dps are happy to let you pull if you are obviously trying to get the dungeon cleared reasonably quickly.

[Nezkeys79]

7 - Yep, everything is typically the tank's fault. Unfortunately, it is what you signed up for and why you usually get 2-3 comms when the run goes smoothly.

Sometimes I do a whole run perfectly...and I get no commendations. Other times hate will be wonky and I'll get two. In castrum meridium roulette today the other tank was like "I'm MT" immediately. I hate arrogant tanks that do this btw. I put up sword oath and on the first train he died and they went for the healer. I covered the healer and took over. On the first boss he died again. I switched to shield oath and took over. On the next boss I assumed main tank role without saying anything. At the start of the fight he engaged a few seconds later than me and used provoke (sigh). Every time it was up he would use it again and said "ffs this pld...nez use sword oath you're making aggro wonky". There was only me and him at the top of the threat list and there was nothing much between us although every time I used Halone it would put him back a little. At the end he said "nez just quit tanking" and I received 0 commendations.

[Noxifer]

"ffs this pld...nez use sword oath you're making aggro wonky"

Perfect time to respond, "Sure, as long as you quit dying all the time."

And yeah, sometimes you get a ton of commies and you have no idea why (pity commendations?), and other times you don't get any despite doing a 99% perfect job.

(Also, you can type out your entire response, select all the text and cut it out, then type something short in the response box -- i tend to use "Placeholder" -- and post it. Edit the post and paste in the text you wrote. ^^ The post length limit only applies when you make a post, not when you edit it. This is usually more effective, since you also have a posts-per-day limit, based on your main character's level.)

[Nezkeys79]

Perfect time to respond, "Sure, as long as you quit dying all the time."

And yeah, sometimes you get a ton of commies and you have no idea why (pity commendations?), and other times you don't get any despite doing a 99% perfect job.

(Also, you can type out your entire response, select all the text and cut it out, then type something short in the response box -- i tend to use "Placeholder" -- and post it. Edit the post and paste in the text you wrote. ^^ The post length limit only applies when you make a post, not when you edit it. This is usually more effective, since you also have a posts-per-day limit, based on your main character's level.)

Tbh I don't usually get involved with all the childish troll comments. Usually what happens is some moron starts doing that to cover his own shortcomings, and because I never say anything I guess the sheep in the party just go along with it. I always think to myself if I am rude (even if they were rude to me first) I may get vote kicked. Especially with the cancerous band wagoners that are in DF sometimes

[LordLucavi]

99% of the time, the dps and healers are behind me or they stop before they get to the mobs so I can grab them. I usually give the dps the benefit of the doubt, there's been times on archer and mch I've accidentally pulled, or Jumped the gun on drg. If it's an ongoing issue, I'll say something about if they pull again, they get to tank the pack. If they steal hate, I see if I'm doing something wrong or missing something first. Then I start marking mobs. If they're attacking number 3 while I'm working on number 1, I'll flash/overpower/unleash/voke. If they keep at it, it's their mob until they die or we get to it, or it goes after the healer.

As far as the threat gen thing goes, most are more concerned with their combo timers.

I really do hate it when they run from me, though. I often tell them at the start of dungeons and bosses that if they get hate, just bring it to me and I'll take it.

[Nezkeys79]

LordLucavI:
"I really do hate it when they run from me, though. I often tell them at the start of dungeons and bosses that if they get hate, just bring it to me and I'll take it."

I'm gonna start doing this from now on. But I can imagine someone will still be an ass at some point and either ignore or be like "no...it's better to kite", or arbitrary comments like "stfu and don't let them get on me then". Today in cutters cry I think it is the one with the princess myrmidion boss thing where the majority of healers train and kite the adds...well this healer trained them all and died and then blamed me for not flashing them all and we wiped...so next one I flashed them all and she couldn't keep me alive. Dps then just said something along the lines of "I've never played tank but I don't think I'd ever be this bad". Such a cancerous mentality

[LordLucavi]

Myrmidion Princess wipings
[/QUOTE]

The most common and effective strategy for that boss in cutter's cry is for the healer to pop a HoT on the tank and kite the adds all the way around the room until the princess is dead, and the one HoT is all the tank should need to stay alive.

[Cooperal]

I never had too much trouble, though I'm hearing recent changes have made it harder for low level tanks to maintain hate, but I haven't tested that, nor do I think a test with sync'd down gear is representative of tanks at that actual level.

I only ever had the same few problems as tank that recur in early-mid pug queues.

1. Some people don't announce what they want in a pug queue (fast runs or full exp runs), or announce AFTER they're already p***ed off. Might result in non-tanks forcing pulls onto me, or people leaving without saying a word. In the case of wanting fast runs and choosing anger, the complaint often comes from people that don't realise that Leveling Roulette primarily exists to pad out the numbers for people who queued for one specific dungeon they need. It can happen, but you should not go into that queue if you're not going to have any tolerance for the people that actually NEED to be there, whether it's for the story, company hunting log, the side loot or whatever else. They are the main reason the queue or the scaled completion bonus exist.

2. Dungeons that exist outside of the main story have a lot more confused people running around. The Sunken Temple of Qarn is probably the best example. I've seen two wipes on just the first first boss before even one DPS decided to read chat and help with wespers or stop dying to doom. I've seen the statue heads die as much as 5 times before a DPS realised that the rest of the party was trying to put it somewhere specific. I've seen a DPS enrage toward the tank for not getting pulling the boss all around the arena to pick up the squishy statue adds. I've seen someone who wanted me dead IRL for mentioning the former and latter. (I mean I lost my patience too but it does get a little unfathomable when people seem to play with their chat log hidden)

3. Ties into 2, but people don't look at mechanics preceding a dungeon. It seems like it's fairly common not to, but it's very poor form in front of strangers, and poorer still if you wait as late as the bosses gate to tell everyone to stop and get filled in on what to do. It's actually quicker for yourself if you go and do your own independant research and find the bullet points or video, rather than waiting for a type up from a party member. Not to mention the DPS of all people could have done the little checking they needed many times over for the duration they waited in queue.