DF Tank Experience

[Nezkeys79]

Does it annoy me when a dps pull ahead of myself (and I pull PRETTY fast)? yes. Do I still take things off them? yes, because it's my job. It's a waste of time to sit there, watch someone die, get raised then argue about it for the next half an hour.

What if after that pull you took things off them but they called you a shit tank that doesn't know your job in party chat, and then you got vote kicked? I agree it's a waste of time to watch them die and argue for the next 30 minutes but when you are being abused in party chat for their selfishness, especially when you fixed the situation by reclaiming aggro it's hard not to defend yourself

now. people need to understand lower level tanking does suck a bit post recent change, war and drk get their enmity stance early, which is good. PLD is kind of awkward. sword oath is fine on a single target boss. what's really bad is before you get your Halone, and the period right before you get shield oath but when dps get their dmg buff traits around lvl 40 (and you're 39). So you end up relying a lot more on flash than you do later on. But it would be nice if more people are aware of this and at least let the tank do the pull.

+1

I just did Thousand Maws of Toto Rak on DF roulette. You get Halone but neither stance. Literally every pack this dps was pulling hate inbetween Halones on one mob. Now consider I have 3-4 mobs on me if you have another dps attacking another mob and you are in a yo-yo battle of enmity on one mob you are gonna lose it on something at some point. Flash spam is the only thing you can do to deal with the other mobs because your Halone is having to go on one mob. YOu cant rotate your combo if the dps is pulling ahead in between every halone. Flash spam however is still not enough in some scenarios if the dps is making it difficult because I hawkeye the guage and see exactly what it does when applied. I spammed flash to the point of emptying my mp and it still made no difference as one mob tore away. This is ultimately slowing the run down more than any other tactic (like all dps attacking the same mob as tank, or stifling their dps temporarily to make sure the tank stays on top) because you have to wait for mp regen back to full at every camp. Also a dead dps=no dps which further slows down the run. I'd much rather have the dps do slightly less damage at the expense of a smoother, faster run where nobody dies. Unfortunately some are too proud to accept that they cant do their highest damage all the time. Obviously I'm not saying this should be the case in every dungeon put pld in some early dungeons as you've said...is horrible...and the dps and healers need to work harder to help them. Obviously the pld has to working harder than usual too

[Kabooa]

Interesting.

Well, let's be very specifically on topic then.

Low level dungeons serve as training grounds; Losing threat here isn't deadly, but it is an indicator of improvement. Just about every dungeon pre-tank stance boils down into Throw-Aoe Twice - Threat Combo the focus target - AoE as needed to keep it off the healer.

Stone Vigil, when every tank is guaranteed to have their tank stance, is where losing threat is punished severely since things there hit much harder compared to previous dungeons, even Cutter's Cry. However, at that point, losing threat is completely on the tank, given the threat buffs that have rolled in nearly every single patch since 2.0.

You're making a mountain out of molehill is what it comes down to.

[Yuni_Queen]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Every post you respond, you do it so viciously, like you would like to prove someone, they are wrong and their post actually would never help you, no matter what they say.


Italics + bold. I am waiting for Caps Lock once your frustration reaches Limit Break 3.
For every line i wrote, you made counter, whatever it was, you needed to have last word.
Low-level dungeons are easier than High-level dungeons, because:
1. You have smaller abilites/weaponskills pallette and you are not even allowed to perform anything more complicated than spamming flash.
2. Mobs are dying twice as fast as in high-level dungeons, so there is lower probability they will manage to steal aggro before mob dies.

I don't need to strike my ego against self-claimed main tank having problems with using basic AoE skill in lowest and easiest dungeons. Low level tanking is hard? No, you simply do it wrong way. How many people have written you to start using flash more often? Read all those 6 pages again. Probably you will read them whole for first time.
People gave you numbers, tips, hints, counter-arguments. And you ignored most of it, leavign without simple answer or at least note, that you have read the post and you will try this out or disagree or whatever.

I didn't give you response solving your tanking problems that was already mentioned at least 3 times. I gave you response however, the fact you missed it means you don't really look for help here, but to argue about bad people in DF.


I gave you so much constructive criticism, you would be able to share it between all your characters, if you have any more.

I dunno, which moment of my responses are again assuming i am everyone. And please explain, what do you even mean by that, because i really don't get which part of my posts are saying i have an army.

Using phrases like: "someone like you", "you are rude" (that's a good one, i am trying to open your eyes for a bit of politeness even when consecutive mistakes are beeing made, but since you don't like what i wrote, becuase it is against you, you call that rude) "your retarded point of view" are falling under direct verbal harrasment (maybe except 2nd one, but it was so good, i had to add it here) . Learn to offend smartly and when it won't be false accusation, like all your offences thrown towards me.

All your problems you gave me in your posts are not your faults, but faults of other people. What do you expect anyone to tell you here? How do you expect we can help you with other people in DF? If not your fault, leave dun, wait 30 min, enter again.
Repeat until you find people that meet your standards. Nobody is forcing you to play with people that in your opinion play bad or making storms over nothing.

But since whole topic was made, because you assumed that it is DPS problem, that you loose aggro, you should go to hall of novices again as gladiator. Good guy RoeBro "Master of Shields" will give you some tips about holding enmity. I ain't making fun of you, maybe you simply skipped some gladiator quests, or you simply forgot about them.

I said it already (and that was my response to your problem) that you (and only you!) are responsible for enmity control in a dungeon. If aggro is lost, it is only tanks fault. lack of shield oath is not a excuse. Shield oath is available from lvl 40 for more than 3 years now, and if SE didn't make SO to be lvl 30, it means it is nothing hard to hold threat in dungeons as paladin below level 40.

All tanks are somehow managing to steal aggro from healer that has palced regen on tank mid-pull, but you seem to be having ultimate-struggle with that. Here you go with advanced knowledge, how to tank, when things are not going as you read in Coursebook:
1. When you dont have aggro on multiple targets, use Flash asap and as much as possible. It is low level dungeon, no worries, no Holy/Flare will be spammed to make your job harder.
2. If you can't steal aggro anyway, next time drop regen that was palced on you, and then pull mobs.
3. Once you hear you are shitty tank, ignore them and carry on. If they won't stop, vote kick and forget. DPS are replaceable. if Healer has time to post, make bigger pulls, he will stop.

DF mentality is simple. People want to make dungeon as fast as possible, as clean as possible and without tanking monsters, when they are dps or healers.
I will repeat it again to make sure you will notice that ultimate truth i am trying to share with you for 2 posts already:

ONLY tank is responsible for enmity generation. If it is not the tank, that has hate, TANK is doing his job incorrectly. ONLY tank's fault.

[Jamillion]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm sorry doctor, despite your efforts I'm afraid his cancer is terminal...

[Yuni_Queen]

I'm sorry doctor, despite your efforts I'm afraid his cancer is terminal...

I really tried to help here, i was even giving likes to posts that are really good info. But its all blood into sand ._.

[Yuni_Queen]

Tank gameplay deals primarily with enmity. When we go through an encounter, it is what we focus on. However, it is something DPS jobs and healers need to be conscious of, as well, because if you aren't a tank and you get and hold hate, there is a very good chance you will die, which places a 100% damage debuff on you until you come back to life. Tanks focus on it primarily, but this absolutely does not mean DPS and healers get to ignore it. That's why they have enmity-dumping tools.

This is a good clarification of what was the problem here.
It is Tanks job to hold threat, and if lost, only tanks fault.
Awerness is a dps/healer party members also a thing. however, we can't punish them for lack of this awerness. Bah, we can't say, its their fault.
It's like using Cover skill. Kind tank will use this skill to help healer during though time, but no healer should require it.

[Noxifer]

It is Tanks job to hold threat, and if lost, only tanks fault.

I respectfully disagree with that statement of yours. Yes, it's the tank's job to hold enmity. But there are situations where little can be done about losing enmity. In particular at lvl 50 and 60, where it's possible to outgear a new tank by a lot. Sure, it's easier to get lvl 50 gear now, just by finishing Job quests and progressing through MSQ, but it still takes you through plenty of instances with "sub-par" gear. Fortunately, most of these are 8-man duties, so unless you're extremely unlucky the other tank is synched down (and thus i130+, not sure if it's just 130 after the latest adjustments) instead of i90 or thereabouts.
Yes, you can buy i115 gear off the MB, but depending on world that can be really expensive -- especially accessories. And unless you get them in HQ, they're worse than i90.

(Frequent Medica2 use during certain phases of T9 also come to mind... More than one time, the boss came back to kick the healers/dps in the face instead of the MT. And since the boss is untargetable until then, there is very little the tank can do about it.)

It's a bit like cleaning the floor with someone stalking you with mud-covered shoes. It's your responsibility to clean up, but is it your fault it's next to impossible? ^^;

[Aquaslash]

I respectfully disagree with that statement of yours. Yes, it's the tank's job to hold enmity. But there are situations where little can be done about losing enmity. In particular at lvl 50 and 60, where it's possible to outgear a new tank by a lot.

I can attest to this. I recall many a neverfun run where I've ripped hate off a fresh 60 like it was child's play. It also happens during hunts semi frequently.

These deeps don't play no games...

[Archaell]

OP you are missing the most important part of your tank rotation:

1. Go to the fridge. 2. Grab some beer. 3. Chill.

There is a reason why so many tanks are playing drunk. ^^

The worst thing you can do is thinking and blaming yourself or others in the Duty Finder runs. It is totally pointless. The content is easy. There are no stakes. If somebody steals aggro or ninja pulls just take it back - or don't. Nothing horrible can happen. Either you tank it or they tank it. They might die - so what? People can be raised. The group might wipe - so what? You can respawn. You might get kicked? Instant queues - you get back right away.

Don't start thinking about punishing the players, it is not going to help as they are going to play the way they want to play anyways. The same is true for you. You can play however you want to play. Just get the run done and forget about the randoms. Ignore their opinions. It does not matter if they think you are a bad tank. It doesn't affects you at all. On the other hand you thinking you are a bad tank does. Accept the fact that it is not always possible to do things perfectly. Don't try to guess what is going on in other players' brains - it's impossible. Usually they don't care about you, so no point to care about them and their supposed opinions.

Just play to get the chores done and move to more enjoyable parts of the game... or try to find few people to play regularly with. Every party member you choose yourself is one less person that could annoy you.

[Janise]

Got to say I am really confused..

I've taken DRK all the way to 60 and am 1M exp away from 60 on my WAR and I ran them both completely through DF and roulette. To date I have not experienced one of the 'issues' that you have described. I struggled a bit for hate 20--30 on the WAR but truth be told it seems to me that you must be doing something wrong to keep getting these kind of responses. Unless I am incredibly lucky, personal experience on a huge number of runs is go in do my job, kill the boss, gg everyone cya and walk out again - no drama, no issues - none of the above.


Maybe its different on GLD - getting defensive stance on 40 must make it pretty tough I would guess- GLD is next on my list!!

You keep talking about cancerous community - I've been playing pretty much nearly a year now and apart from one Castro run with a complete knob of a tank I have found this community brilliant, helpful and positive. Compare that with WOW and I think you have very little to worry about other than to maybe look at yourself a bit more closely and maybe,you know, stop taking it so seriously..

But then I am laid back about pretty much everything - maybe you are just being a little over sensitive OP?