sorry for the multiple posts but the maximum text for one post is pretty low on this site. So yeah...I don't wanna say that it's just bad dps and healers on DF because I'm sure bad tanks exist as well. And for what it's worth I've seen some very good dps who do obscene amounts of damage and still never seem to pull hate and the fights are over in seconds. Then there are good healers who just have me topped up practically the whole fight and I never drop below 50% ever, and they somehow never seem to pull hate either. In these types of parties provoke immediately brings hate back and keeps it. In some it doesn't and that has to be a DPS continually attacking same mob, and while I'm trying to wrestle for hate...im losing it on something else for example.