Issue With End Game Raiding

[Yhisa]

. Snip

Guess u never done challenge mode in WOW ... That was seriously hard and was 5man content with a time attack and everything would obliterate u if u was not careful

So many times i died doing challenge mode and this is before reaching the first boss... They also scaled down ur ilvl and controlled ur gear stat points etc

But it was fun and sooo rewarding, going around with challenge mode armor and phoenix hawk mount , i felt sooo damn epic and felt like i accomplish something others could not do

So yes 4man content can be harder then 8man raid if they put there mind and resources into it

[MrPresident]

You're right, there is a diminishing amount of veterans around to raid. And you're also correct there aren't many new players to take their place...because those veterans don't want anything to do with new players. New players don't get taught fights, or even just pointers and tips from the experienced ones. They all just stay in their little cliques, so when someone leaves for whatever reason it's hardly surprising there is only a small amount of replacements coming through. No sympy.

[Reaperking386]

Sorry OP, but I am 100% against flex raiding. That didn't bold so well in WoW and it was invented because normal raids were 10 - 25 man. 8 people is not difficult to find and it seems that your problem is that White Mage is a dime a dozen. I am sorry you can't find a group. It does suck when you want to raid, but you can't find anyone. Some times you will have to switch classes and start all over again to get a group. It is the nature of the beast. I do agree that there should be another tier added. It seems that Savage is too difficult for many raiders and groups break because the raids demand perfection and are very unforgiving when one player dies or makes a mistake. It is cool to conquer a mountain, but it really wears a team out if they keep failing hours on end on one boss every week. I hope you do find a group soon!

[silentwindfr]

the point is not about raid at 8 must be take out, but we must have an alternative to raid. it will serve to the raid since it will offer them more option. the point is raid must'nt be the only true endgame content and token can't make the cut either.
the raid 8 is good for you, that nice and i hope they will deliver more and more raid for you. however, not everyone have time or friend for make a static and the number show it, less of 10% of the community do the savage, meanins about 90% of the community have no true endgame for them.

[urban]

Solution to this fix: create Trust NPC

[Ibi]

The 4/8/24 lockdown is but a symptom.

No flexibility in itemization plus a pathological fear of imbalance means a every piece of content requires a strict DPS assembly line quota. Different BGM will play, different colored lights and floating markers will flash, but you are ultimately doing a familiar dance. We will never see Salvage, Dynamis, Limbus or any content with logistical complexity until the itemization moves away from bigger numbers on the same stats.

Once the itemization becomes more diverse, the content will follow suit.

You're vastly overselling the importance of gear in Salvage, Dynamis, and Limbus.

You could have cleared all three events in groups equipped with nothing beyond the sets you could purchase with assault points (Amir, Pahluwan, and Yigit sets), and items of equivalent stat complexity in your other equipment slots, and those have no more variety in terms of stats than what we're getting in FFXIV.

I think you're also overselling the complexity of the events.

Outside of their final bosses, Limbus and Dynamis especially were very simplistic in nature. Most or all of FFXIV's 24-man raid bosses could rival the Dynamis bosses, with the potential exception of the Shadow Lord, in terms of complexity. Heck, even four-man leveling dungeons are more complex than 95% of Dynamis.

[Yukiko]

More and more groups are using "Deadly Boss Mod"...
Why do players think they cant do it without such tools?
What exactly is different to Coil where players did not need those tools?

[Ibi]

What exactly is different to Coil where players did not need those tools?

Fights in Coil were generally simpler in terms of mechanics. I'll acknowledge that it's likely a weak correlation at best, but it's not a surprise that Solitude's guide to T9 is 4,109 words but their guide to A8S is more than double that at 9,616 words.

It's even more true if you compare the earlier turns in Coil to the earlier sections of Alexander Savage.

Additionally, I suspect that the use of external tools are considerably more common now than they were in 2.x, as is the availability of the information to configure things to provide DBM-style warnings. Some of the popular guides for Midas Savage even include things you can copy-paste directly into the external tools to give you the warnings; I don't recall that kind of thing being included in guides for Coil.

[Zojha]

Why do players think they cant do it without such tools?

Oh they can - but why should they? It's like not taking an item upgrade because you should be able to clear even without it, or not using buff food on principle because your stats should suffice as they are.

If the tools are there and SE isn't gonna do anything about them, there's no reason not to use them to gain an advantage. In the end, the whole thing really goes back to the parsing debate, because that's where the data for such tools comes from.

[Marcellus_Cassius]

Like it has been said, end game for most is the weekly Alex (normal) turn ins and the occasional Trial (Ex) which are becoming increasingly burdensome. If you take into account that Alex Midas is the second iteration of the same formula as its predecessor we end up with a non-savage raiding community that is as equally disinterested and fatigued as their counterparts.

I think the solution is to add content which builds FC communities, such as XI's sky/sea end game. For those unfamiliar with those, its content requiring large scale collaboration over time (unlike the Diadem) to ultimately spawn a super boss.