Issue With End Game Raiding

[RiceisNice]

Let's face it the first tier of Alex proved that FF14 raid player base is just not 'hardcore' and that's why Tier 2 Alex was much easier than the first.


If you can't set a few hours a week aside for raiding then you can't raid. Simple.

The first part is debatable on whether or not what group of players they are aiming for. I wouldn't go as far as saying "tier 2 alex was much easier than the first" since I can see where some groups can have trouble with (such as Blaster in A6s, as well as the process of learning vortexer) Doing 6-7 hours of raiding a week (roughly 2 hours a day for 3 days) isn't enough to get lasting progression on a fight like A3s or A6s as far as retaining the mechanics are concerned. But when you go beyond that, Savage is also meant to be the to-go to raid for any and all static, alongside EX trials.

All we need is the current story mode and the savage. FF14 doesn't have the raid playerbase that WoW does so extra modes just bloat an already messy ilevel range and fragment then even more.

I'm in favor of making story/normal mode be tuned to a similiar range of difficulty as the EX primals. The latter is already tuned in a way that it becomes accessible through the process of gearing (and eventual echo), and prevents it from being delegated to a weekly routine from release like void ark or dungeons. In a wider perspective, there's a lot of content for players who have no interest in raiding, there's content for players who want to invest a lot of time for raiding, but only EX trials are there for players who want to raid but can only invest a small amount of time due to outside of obligations and finding other players to do so (which isn't necessarily easy, especially with smaller servers transferring off for gordias progression)

[Thayos]

If you can't set a few hours a week aside for raiding then you can't raid. Simple.

I couldn't agree more.

That's exactly why we need a form of endgame that's not typical raiding. Too many people can't set aside a few hours per week with seven other people whose schedules match exactly.

[Yukiko]

8 man rope jumping or 4 man rope jumping makes no difference.
It doesnt matter if its raiding or not, as long as everyone have to perform perfect like robots nothing will change!
SE have to allow some sort of recovery and give the players a form of choice (skill tree, more freedom with attributes or some sort of element wheel)
Currently most of the frustration comes from that stupid team rope jumping, one will always fall.

[Millen1]

I have been in and out of raiding. My last group broke up at the start of 3.2. I worked to find another group for Midas savage but too many were focused on getting all i220 Seph stuff first and ended up stuck there. The groups I either subbed for or tried out for, I had to change off of my main as a sch and played blm which is a secondary I am ok at but not great. Too many of my friends I did raid content with left the server I am on just before 3.2 or right after to head to a raid server for a better chance to get in and clear. I am hoping the the cross server PF for raid works in 3.3. It won't fix everything but I think it will help many ppl get into a group.

[Alahra]

Following adjustments to AS6, Midas overall doesn't largely feel notably more difficult than the three Coils of Bahamut were in ARR. It's about where they wanted it—in between Second Coil and Final Coil in difficulty. All in all, that's a pretty good sweet spot.

Regarding recruitment, though, the game's still feeling the aftermath of the damage done by Gordias, and it's going to take time for each server to build up a sizable raiding community again. From what I can tell on my server, there are a ton of statics looking for BRD/MCH, and that bottleneck is probably really giving the scene here trouble. Even tanks seem to be more common than BRD/MCH these days, and I'm sure healers are more prolific than that.

I definitely think it's worth trying to form your own group if you're having trouble slipping into one, though. I know it can suck to backpedal a bit, but it might be worth it in the long term, especially if you can form a group with folks who you're already familiar with.

[vedobsu]

I will give you a very simple answer on how to fix raiding for majority of ppls enjoyment..
Make it easier, the reason why Final Coil was the best was because of the story, encounters, and the difficulty. Ask yourself one thing, is it really worth all the stress to raid content for 2-3 months and when you finally clear you get to do it all over again 3-4 months later. Make it easier so ppl can clear in about 1 month and actually can afford to get loot for alts while the gear is still relevant and not just for glamour. Don't bother telling me to find very talented ppl, its about playing the game stress free and for fun tbh. If you want to cater to the hardcore ppl make something similar to savage second coil where you give them a goblin mount if they clear it or w/e. Point is make it easier so more ppl can enjoy it. Attack my opinion however you want, I believe in what I said and I think it is a solution to current raiding issues in the game.

[silentwindfr]

i think the core of the trouble is not about the difficulty, but the lack of choice in terms of content.
i don't feel make a 4 man version of the current raid is an answer too... but really a new form of endgame tailored for a team of 4 player that will recquire gears, skill and teamplay for complete it. it will have 2 advantage:

- first allows the people that don't have a static to create smaller groups (4 person is easier to gather) for enjoy challenging AND rewarding content. (pharos sirus vanilla wasn't hard, simply too much tuned for an ilevel people had not anymore 55-60 when most people was 80+).
- Second and that the most important, allows a smoother progression from a form at 4 player to 8 player, since 2 group of 4 can create easily a static.

but and i'm serious there, it must'nt reward less than raid, if the challenge is on par with the raid, it need to give the same reward. gather 4 or 8 person must'nt be counted into the difficulty of a raid, why? because people have life outside the game and can't always have the time or the connection for do raid at 8 or more. the trouble with FF14 endgame is the lack of choice... we can't customize our character and the item we have acces per tier are always same... without the mirage system we will all look the same. and i feel the game need to gain some choice in terms of what item we can earn.

give an alternative to the raid is not meaning to kill the raid. understand me, people that haven't any static will have a content tailored for them, but that don't means that static can't do this content too. the dev need to stop to try to force us to play only one jobs (two at best). ask us to count 11 week for equip a whole jobs is an error that need to be adressed. especially with the futur expansion (4.x that will probably announced at the fanfest later this years.) that will add more jobs to play. they need to move away from wow schema and create them own model.

they still need to deliver raid at 8, it's a given, but i feel they need to deliver a 4 man challenging content on par with the savage, for allows smaller group to not feel left out. and maybe allows people with wierd schedule to enjoy the game they love.

how do it? i have said it countless time... procedural generation, a la rogue like... the challenge will be into the adaptibility of the group. it can take the form of a sort of horde mode... or better randomized dungeon.
the best with this sort of content, it's the replayability. what lack the endgame of ff14, the loot is not replayability.

this sort of content can bring what ff14 lack and more important need the most. do it must be bring for the 3.X? no it's impossible this sort of content need a lot of time and work for be made, but i feel it need to come with the 4.X and must be one of the priority actually.

because what FF14 lack is choice into the endgame. we did tell you with the release of the 3.x content so far that we don't want a same model than the V2...you need to take risk and work on true new type of content for everyone, not only a small part of the community.

ps: and i hope someone will pass this message to Yoshi-P: tell the high up to give you more people for work on FF14... it's nice to invest soo much in FF15... but soo far you have more of 4Millions people already paying for a service that need more hand for it.

[Alexftw]

Tbh if 4 man raid exists, mechanisms will have to be more complex due to half chance failing as less people = less chance single mistake. And rewards would need to be half of normal raid (as 4 ppl rolling instead of 8).

With these two factors I agree.

Having two raids would be interesting. (4man and 8man) and at same time would make a lot people at least be able to do one of them. (Since it's a lot easier to find 4 people).


A small suggestion would be: keep raid gear from 8man savage, make more lore upgrades drop from 4man. This would make upgrading hard but easier than 8man savage(I refuse to belive a 4 man raid can be as complex as 8man), but if you wanted bis youd have to do 8man savage aswell. Solves problem.

[Yhisa]

Iv been playing since early access.... Raided coil.... And did sephirot got my wep and never raided again

Before i use to be a hardcore raider in wow, but in ffxiv i dont even attempt to raid due to how the system works and this what happens

U will raid until ur blue in the face, after a month or 2 or 3 that effort shatters as same ilvl gear is being offered via tomestones then u be raiding for optimal stats or a +5 ilvl weapon

There is no reason to raid at all due to how often gear is passed down to please the playerbase that dont even step foot into raids

Me personally i would just remove 8man raids and make content for savage mode 4man which u have shorter time to complete and u get unique armor and weapons etc even minion/mounts for completing it also special items for glamours/mounts

These modes will have no story and be for players that want a challenge and play with friends etc but they are hard and challenging

[Yhisa]

- tomestone
This is a serious old fashion way to get gear which is very boring to do especially running expert back to back for a 450 cap each week, no one likes this system and at less half of the playerbase just give up on the long grind once capped they logout and come back the following week

- gear choice
This is a serious problem at the max ilvl u have 2 gear choices only for each slot which only secondary stats is effective here, so gear customisation is none existant

- playerbase
As people have said FFXIV have mostly mature player base so its hard to get a static together to do raiding content and as a mature player we tend to look for the quickest way to get things done as IRL schedules effects our game iv been through a lot of statics in coil and 70% of the problems was due to players and there out of game lives