Super-mega-grind

[Tiraelina]

The main problem is there's no benefit to doing anything but spamming standard in the current system to level up. Having a proper risk/reward system so you actually get a meaningful reward for higher quality/getting an HQ at the end of a synth would be a good start. Getting an HQ in the first place is so incredibly random and just forces you to spam craft to get a +anything. Having ~160q and getting a +2 and ~400-500q and get a NQ after touchups with identical XP for both is really silly.

Several good changes wouldn't even end up being that complicated. We've only been getting a more and more simplified system and removing what little benefits you had for getting better quality in terms of XP gains.

[Betelgeuzah]

Getting an HQ in the first place is so incredibly random and just forces you to spam craft to get a +anything. Having ~160q and getting a +2 and ~400-500q and get a NQ after touchups with identical XP for both is really silly.

The effect of quality has been clearly demonstrated through extensive testing before. It makes a huge difference now, don't know about 1.20+.

[MANTASTIC]

The effect of quality has been clearly demonstrated through extensive testing before. It makes a huge difference now, don't know about 1.20+.

I think the fact that someone had to do "extensive testing" to determine whether or not quality had much of an effect is a pretty strong indicator that the current HQ system is retarded. Not that it will matter when 1.20 rolls around, but for now Tiraelina has a point: random HQing undermines the effect of player skill and is yet another reason why mashing standard is the prefered modus operandi for everything but a few finished products here and there.

[Betelgeuzah]

I think the fact that someone had to do "extensive testing" to determine whether or not quality had much of an effect is a pretty strong indicator that the current HQ system is retarded.

So anything that can't be eyeballed is retarded?

Cool story bro.

(You didn't even need extensive tests to come into conclusions, but he did it for extra emphasis).

[MANTASTIC]

So anything that can't be eyeballed is retarded?

You mean anything that has little obvious effect and is still heavily subject to RNG while supposedly being central to the system? Yes, that's fairly retarded.

[Betelgeuzah]

You mean anything that has little obvious effect and is still heavily subject to RNG while supposedly central to the system? Yes, that's fairly retarded.

You don't even know what the results are, but you are doing a good job talking like you do.

We are talking about the difference between 2~5% HQ chance at <50-100 quality to 30% HQ chance at 500+ quality. Oh yeah, that's basically meaningless and retarded. 2% to 30%? That's not obvious at all.

Keep talking, this is amusing.

[MANTASTIC]

You don't even know what the results are, but you are doing a good job talking like you do.

We are talking about the difference between 2~5% HQ chance at <50-100 quality to 30% HQ chance at 500+ quality. Oh yeah, that's basically meaningless and retarded. 2% to 30%? That's not obvious at all.

Keep talking, this is amusing.

I'm not sure I understand your stance on this or if I'm just getting trolled here, but the effort needed to get 500 by either use of abilities at appropriate times or by collecting +1~3 ingredients(or a mix thereof) only yielding an additional 25-28%(your statistics) chance of "success" is ok in your opinion? And that additional experience points gained from this is at most 50ish?

Has anyone heard of an effort to reward ratio?

[Tiraelina]

The effect of quality has been clearly demonstrated through extensive testing before. It makes a huge difference now, don't know about 1.20+.

It's a poor enough difference that it isn't any incentive to not spam standard. There is no advantage to babying a synth when you want more XP/hr which is the problem of it being a flat grind, there is no variation without heavy penalty.

Maybe you missed the part about grinding and XP because that's what this is about.

[Betelgeuzah]

It's a poor enough difference that it isn't any incentive to not spam standard.

Maybe to someone with so much money that it doesn't matter what you synth, you'll just spam through the game. Which is pretty easy at this point.

The rest of us don't have such luxury. HQ's are finally noticeably better, so they are more valuable, so if you actually synth something that you find valuable (instead of just means to EXP if you're so filthy rich) you will want that HQ, and having a lot of quality will bring you that HQ with a much higher percentage than without said quality.