How can we win Frontlines when we have 4 or more healers? (24 person)

[FinaSel]

I'm looking for advice on how to handle this issue.

It seems like every time I go into Frontlines, we have at least 3 healers. Usually 4. And sometimes even 5.

Because my only level 60 job is White Mage, I can't change to another class. (But as soon as I can, I will).

Yet, despite having 4 or 5 healers. No one wants to change jobs before the match begins. I usually check other's information, and almost always everyone else has another job they could change to. I've asked if someone would change, but either no one does or only 1 person does (rare).

So because I can't make people change and they are entitled to play as they want, how should we play the match so we stand a chance at victory? Our damage output is very low and we die fast when ganged up on.
Running into the enemy team base is a death sentence and we often have healers who will try this on their own.

What can I say / recommend to my team to lead us to victory?

[Isala]

You're... joking. Right? I mean, I want to believe you, but I have NEVER seen a match with that many healers. Matches without a single healer, yes, but never an entire army of healers.

[FinaSel]

You're... joking. Right?

No, unfortunately I am absolutely not joking. It seems like the only time our team has 2 or 1 healer is when it is a 72-person Frontlines during prime time. Otherwise, we usually get the same people doing the same class.

I know it's partially my fault because I haven't leveled another class to 60 yet, but I wish the one's who DO have other level 60s would switch to another job. Item level is synced to 150, so if you have a job at 60, equipment shouldn't be the problem? Or am I missing something?

The other problem is, it's usually the same people I'm seeing. For weeks now. (I do Frontlines for achievements right now.)

Because no one seems like they want to do PvP as DPS or Tank, I need some advice on how we should play with so many healers.

[Ultimatecalibur]

You seem to be having a problem few encounter.

Are you a member of Twin Adders by any chance? Because that is the only way I could expect your problem to occur.

[FinaSel]

Are you a member of Twin Adders by any chance? Because that is the only way I could expect your problem to occur.

Yes. And I thought that might have something to do with it.

[Februs]

Snip.

Then the solution is simple. Switch GC's lol. I can tell you right now that Flames and Mael would kill to have even ONE healer in their PvP parties. Most of the time when I get into FL someone has to swap to heals just so we can have one.

On a more serious note, if job swapping isn't an option, then your best chance is through careful use of passive aggressive tactics.

In most cases, you're going to want to avoid direct confrontation. This means watching the map and waiting for golden opportunities. If three nodes are up, for example, allow the other two teams to attack one another. When you see their dots popping up on the map, it means they're fighting. Now's your chance to sneak behind one of them and steal a node. Aim for the least heavily guarded one first (if there's three up, one of the three is bound to be completely unguarded). Once you've taken it, open your map and evaluate the situation. If the fighting is dying down, enemies are coming your way, or the nodes are about to expire, then it's time to go. No need for heroics. Just bail out. Get somewhere safe, and wait for the next set. If the nodes are still good and the other two teams are distracted, you might have another golden opportunity. You can try to sneak behind whoever is pushing hardest (as they likely have the most distance from the node they are actually holding). If they are focused hard enough on the other team, they might not notice you stealing their node right from under them. Just keep in mind that it can backfire if they turn around on you, so be ready to bail at a moments notice. There's no need to hunker down and hold the node. Any points you take off of it are a surplus so long as no one dies, so if you get attacked just run away and get somewhere safe until the next set comes out. It's also important to stay together, all eight of you, if needs be. A weak fighting force is all that much weaker when you're split up, so never do that even if you're losing.

Eventually, you're probably going to have to fight at least some small skirmishes, so another thing to do is make sound judgment calls on what role you should be fulfilling in combat. A White Mage can still act as a (poor) dps/tank if need be. If you find yourself "Dps'ing," hang back and avoid direct confrontations. Pretend your a Smn, just with a water pistol instead of a cannon. If you're "tanking" you're role is a little more complicated. In most cases you still want to avoid direct confrontation, but, in the event you are under heavy attack, you want to try to focus the dmg in one spot. That means having one person get up in the enemies face and do something flashy. You'll probably die, but sometimes the sacrifice play is necessary to let the team get away in the worst case scenarios. In the best case scenarios, you'll get "tank" targets by baiting them. This is kind of tricky, but what you want to do is basically use yourself as bait to lure one dps away from the enemy pack and let your team pounce on him/her. Whm's in particular have awesome CC that will come in handy here. Sleep, bind or stun stray targets to give whatever Dps you have time to burn them down, or use those moves as a safety net to protect yourself when under attack, giving you time to escape.

That's about the best suggestions I have for you. I've seen passive aggressive strategies work in the past. I've actually been on teams that have won entire matches in which we didn't get into a single fight, but it's definitely tricky and requires much more situational awareness than simply muscling in on a node. There are a lot of things that can go wrong (the worst of which being that both enemy teams figure out that you have too many heals, making it open season on your GC), but you don't have many other options. Honestly, the hardest part will be getting your team to work together while doing this. It requires strong leadership, very quick response times (by all the party members), and a team that actually works as a team. That can be difficult with random parties, but hopefully you'll have some success with it. Good luck.

[FinaSel]

....

Thank you for the very detailed and excellent advice.
I've made a macro I can use to explain the strategy when there are 4+ healers and no one changes their job. I've also made a few for who to attack and which direction to travel in.

I feel strange guiding the group because it's not in my personality, but no one else says anything and we just kept losing.

Today I used some macros to guide everyone, who were going in all their own directions. We started off poorly, but once everyone moved together and quickly, we made a comeback and actually won!!

The second match started the same way. Although we didn't win, we finished in 2nd, very close behind 1st!

[Februs]

Snip

Grats! I'm glad it helped and you've had some marginal success with it. It can definitely be a pain to herd the group around, and working with insufficient Dps is taxing at best. Stick with it, though. Sometimes it will make you want to pull your hair out (uncooperative groups and all), but having an actual strategy is a much better option than flying by the seat of your pants.

I'm not the type who likes to lead either (mostly because it takes away from my actual combat time while I check maps, troop positions, node spawns, etc), but if no one else is doing it then you really don't have a choice. I've had to do my fair share of reluctant leadership as well, just to keep my winning % up and get my ADS mount. Now that I have it, though, I can be a little more lazy lol.

[Chronons]

There is some solid advice here already, but ill throw in my 2 gil. When you find yourself with an abundance of healers I have found it best if you play defensively. Know going in that you do not have the dps capability to push people off of nodes. You can however, defend a position very well. Spread early to capture objs quickly and close in on them together so you can defend. Typically the easiest way to push a team off of an obj is to take out the healers first or overwhelm their ability to heal their team with your own dps. Having more healers can disrupt this strategy. It doesn't matter if you LB one healer when there are 3 more to share the mp burden of raising and maintaining team heals. Pick a player or two to watch for people trying to sneak capture a point you are holding - they dont have to kill them, just stop them from touching the Tome. I once got in a Seize match with 7 healers (I play DRK) and employed this method, both GCs working together could not push us off.