So, what's with the lack of Machinist in DF?

[Velhart]

The issue is that the other jobs can do all of this too. WHM/SCH/AST all have MP restoring capabilities, and for the most part the only times I ever see us needing MP songs/turrets is if people are dying and we either have died or have used our MP raising. Silence/stun/binding/heavy can be done by almost every job.

IMO if they removed all that utility from other jobs, it would make the utility that a MCH/BRD brings much more viable. Currently though, you sacrifice a 10% damage potential so that they can bring a 10% buff to other people once in awhile.

Ballad/mp turret are nice, but like it'd be nice to have more.

That is more towards a discussion if MCH/BRD deserve to be on the same line as other DPS. Argument was more that the jobs do have heavy utility, rather if its ones people agree with or not. Making what he suggests is the extreme route. It isn't to say that BRD/MCH shouldn't have better utility, but it is there. If anything, it should be revamped so BRD and MCH have more synergy on the support side. Right now you take one based on your party set up.

I'd love it if they removed DPS and actually added Utility classes too! =3

So basically BRD from FFXI? Sounds terrible and doesn't make sense in how this game is structured.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

That is more towards a discussion if MCH/BRD deserve to be on the same line as other DPS. Argument was more that the jobs do have heavy utility, rather if its ones people agree with or not. Making what he suggests is the extreme route. It isn't to say that BRD/MCH shouldn't have better utility, but it is there. If anything, it should be revamped so BRD and MCH have more synergy on the support side. Right now you take one based on your party set up.

MCH
Dismantling Shot (Replaces Dismantle)
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Slug Shot;
Combo Potency: 200;
Combo Bonus: Absorbs 50% damage dealt as HP and 10% of the target's damage dealt is immediately healed.
Duration: 20s

Rend Mind
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
If delivered as the enemy is casting, Delivers a second attack with a potency of 200.
Silences target for 0.25 seconds.
Cooldown: 30 seconds.
Instant.


BRD:
Songs become stances, and are now instant cast:

Mage's Ballad
Slowly refreshes MP of all nearby party members.
You are slowed by 30% while singing.
Cannot be used with other songs. Removed when casting another Song.

Army's Paeon
Slowly refreshes TP of all nearby party members.
You are slowed by 30% while singing.
Cannot be used with other songs. Removed when casting another Song.

The Wanderer's Minuet
Increases critical chance of all nearby party members by 8%.
Increases all damage dealt by 15%.
TP and MP is slowly drained while singing.
Cannot be used with other songs. Removed when casting another Song.

Battle Voice ((Could be renamed to Voice of the Valkyries or something.))
Resurrects target to 100% Health, Mana, and TP and they are immune to damage for 2 seconds.
3s cast; 300 second CD.

Swiftsong
Bard's Movement Speed in combat is increased by 5%.
Grants 25% increased movement speed to group. It suspends during combat.
This is a permanent buff you can leave on now.

So basically BRD from FFXI? Sounds terrible and doesn't make sense in how this game is structured.

Honestly, the Holy Trinity has ruined so many MMOs its not even funny or fun anymore. I agree there should be roles, but "Utility", "Support", "Puller", "Crowd Control" ect ect seems dead.

[Velhart]

Honestly, the Holy Trinity has ruined so many MMOs its not even funny or fun anymore. I agree there should be roles, but "Utility", "Support", "Puller", "Crowd Control" ect ect seems dead.

Because people would not want them in normal situations. This isn't FFXI. You can just add these roles within jobs within the trinity and still keep things balanced. You are asking for something that comes from a completely different combat system.

[Kaurie]

Because people would not want them in normal situations. This isn't FFXI. You can just add these roles within jobs within the trinity and still keep things balanced. You are asking for something that comes from a completely different combat system.

Yeah, I miss the vast array of different roles there were in Guild Wars 1 - and missions / encounters were actually designed around it. i.e. You wanted to bring that archer for pulling + interrupting the healer. The fact that it did less DPS than something else wasn't important, because if you weren't interrupting the healer - the extra damage was null anyway.