1.2 Needs to fix Sentinel, Tanking, and XI Class-ism.

[Jennestia]

Takes a few minutes to install and setup an addon, it can take days to level up a class especially if you don't enjoy that class.

Point was: Certain addons, i.e gearscore type also brings in the 'requirement' nature of players, because they'll be looking for x factor. It happens more with add-ons because certain MMOs with them give you full read outs on the player. Much like here, some people require you to have sentinel, even though it's not required but is helpful.

It's just how MMOs are these days.

[whoopeeragon]

You don't need sentinel for the fight but it makes it that much easier if you have sentinel, for 7 other people in your party.

If you are not willing to work for the particular skill to help the other 7 people to get through the fight easier, who here are being selfish?

Being selfish and being required are two different concepts. What if the person absolutely detests the gladiator class, but is forced to needlessly go against their way of enjoyment, just others are entitled to their cconvenience? Who will be the selfish one then?

The armory system exists for the sake of allowing you to pick and choose your own style of combat and skills. I myself operate as a hybrid healer/buffer/debuffer in conjunction with my Lancer, simply because at times, our mages are either dead, busy, or lack MP, and not to mention Conjurer is my second main class. Other lances, however, will go to pure extents of DD, or perhaps even tanking. essentially, by your request, you're trying to remove the diversity of such a system which is what makes it so unique and extraordinary, as well as the amount of potential that can be pulled from it. Sure, leveling a few classes is optimum for use, but note, IT'S OPTIMUM. We're all different; we have enough similar abilities that the majority of people can agree on being so useful that it deserves a permanent place in our action bar, such as cure. But, leave the rest of the space to fill in out own personal abilities that define why we, as different people, want to and how to play the game.

And note; with such a high level, as well the limited use of it, Sentinel is NOT a required skill for use. Don't even think about arguing for it.

[Raikki]

We're getting exactly what you want with the jobs system. The class system is designed for equipping skills from other classes. In the meantime, they have the choice of either making the game too easy for people with multiple classes or too hard for people without multiple classes. They've chosen to keep it hard so we can't just trivialize it.

P.S. it's 1.20 (one point twenty), not 1.2. It's the 20th revision of version 1. Sorry, pet peeve.

[Tsukino]

Point was: Certain addons, i.e gearscore type also brings in the 'requirement' nature of players, because they'll be looking for x factor. It happens more with add-ons because certain MMOs with them give you full read outs on the player. Much like here, some people require you to have sentinel, even though it's not required but is helpful.

It's just how MMOs are these days.

As much as I loathe things like "gearscore," MMOs have always been like that. Certain types players have always tried to require certain abilities (if not gained automatically) or certain equipment of others. Add-ons and achievement listings just make it simpler to do.

[Chardrizard]

Being selfish and being required are two different concepts. What if the person absolutely detests the gladiator class, but is forced to needlessly go against their way of enjoyment, just others are entitled to their cconvenience? Who will be the selfish one then?

Again, you are not required to have sentinel to win the fight. But in MMO you are working with other people, will you make sacrifices to make the other 7 people happy to run stuff with you? or are you going to be stubborn with your dislikes toward a certain class and make it hard for 7 other people? in real life, we call this compromising.

[HoolieWho]

OP, you take pains to praise the armory system but it is the culprit here. You can gut the system by making every useful skill class specific or you you can nerf every ability into mediocrity or else you are left with issues like you're encountering.

[whoopeeragon]

And compromise can go both ways as well. Why can't the other party compromise and accept that not everyone would have Sentinel, nor feel the need to have it for a only one particular fight out of so many? Why can't they accept different types of game-play? I'll understand a compromise for an ability that's under level 25, but a level 36 ability? No.

[KyrsIsley]

tl;dr

Sentinel is broken. Requiring gladiator leveled to 36 for Ifrit is a broken mechanic that is setting a dangerous precedent for future fights.

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Thank you for making Ifrit a challenging fight. When the servers and animation locks are fixed, I am sure this will be a thoroughly enjoyable fight.

Unfortunately, you need to patch sentinel. The XI purist community expects everyone to level gladiator to 36 for sentinel. This type of gameplay is pathetic, masochistic, outrageous, and classist.

I have no desire to play gladiator, nor marauder, nor pugilist. I am a fully dedicated mage.
One of XI's worst qualities was that you had to level X job for X fight, to have X ability. Leveling those classes took months. Yes the leveling curve is easier in XIV, but no, I still don't want anything to do with gladiator, marauder, or pugilist. I don't enjoy melee classes and I want nothing to do with them.

"But the armory system caters to leveling multiple classes." Yes, it does, and it rightfully should. Unfortunately, when you have skills like sentinel, that make such a dramatic impact to where guilds start demanding you level this class just for that fight -- you know it needs to be patched or something needs to be fixed.

1.2 is the perfect time to fix this horrible XI mechanic. I was denied several main missions in CoP because I didn't have the right jobs leveled or the right skills. XIV needs to move away from this terrible terrible terrible terrible design for future content.

I have been turned down by two linkshells who want me to have sentinel for Ifrit.

Furthermore, 1.2 needs to fix tanking to where you only need one 'tank class/job' leveled up to tank sufficiently. There is no fathomable excuse for the current situation to where tanks need to level gladiator, marauder, pugilist, and occasionally thaumaturge to be a sufficient tank!!!!

Having this 'requirement' to level multiple classes to be functional in dungeons or certain fights is ridiculous. The armory system is a perfect system to cater towards diversity and 'alternate character' play, but don't abuse it by requiring people to level. It also creates a massive barrier for newer players who want to pick up the game and say "I am going to be a tank!" Instead, they get faced with the reality of "no you cant, you need to level up four other jobs before you're good to tank."

The armory system is one of XIV's best and most unique qualities. I means I can take the spells I enjoy the most from the classes that I want to play, and have a personalized character. If you're going to start requiring people to level against their desires it really takes away the fun of the game and further reinforces the fact that this is nothing more than a grind-fest until you have all the classes leveled to start experiencing the game.

You shouldn't need every single class leveled to experience end game content.

Sorry, Sentinel is not "required" by any means. There are 4 nails, a full minute before hellfire is triggered. Any half way decent group should be able to take down at least 2 nails and with the group being topped off and stoneskin, you can easily survive the hellfire.

In addition, maybe you don't want to get to 36 for Sentinel, but Defender (MRD 10) and Rampart (GLA 4), also helps reducing the damage, and I don't think asking you to level those two jobs to those levels are too much, is it? You can get level 10 in like 30 minutes, and level 4 in like 10 minutes. With these two skills and the strategy stated above (take down 2+ nails, topped off, and buffed with stoneskin), you should have more than enough to survive hellfire.

Truth is, Sentinel makes the fight easier because it reduces the risks of people dying from hellfire, or various other occasions during the fight. It gives you more "buffer" to "screw up". If you are complaining about people wanting you have a skill so there are more leeway during the fight, then you might as well stop playing MMOs, because no matter what MMOs you play. The community WILL figure out the most "idiot proof" ways to do things to make everyone's life easier.

And compromise can go both ways as well. Why can't the other party compromise and accept that not everyone would have Sentinel, nor feel the need to have it for a only one particular fight out of so many? Why can't they accept different types of game-play? I'll understand a compromise for an ability that's under level 25, but a level 36 ability? No.

Your argument really just means that both side's arguments are valid, which means you just have to find the people that are willing to accept your playstyle, and you shouldn't be forcing those who do not want to accept your playstyle to accept it.

Fact is, there are groups and people out there that are willing to take people without Sentinel (I've been on a few of those myself), they are by no means the majority, but they do exist. Just go find them, and stop complaining the ones that aren't willing to accept people without Sentinel, because it is their choice. As you stated that there really are no right and wrong in this argument, if you aren't willing to compromise, what makes others want to compromise for you?

Also, you can start your own group, no?

[RathSkybreaker]

Sorry, Sentinel is not "required" by any means. There are 4 nails, a full minute before hellfire is triggered. Any half way decent group should be able to take down at least 2 nails and with the group being topped off and stoneskin, you can easily survive the hellfire.

In addition, maybe you don't want to get to 36 for Sentinel, but Defender (MRD 10) and Rampart (GLA 4), also helps reducing the damage, and I don't think asking you to level those two jobs to those levels are too much, is it? You can get level 10 in like 30 minutes, and level 4 in like 10 minutes. With these two skills and the strategy stated above (take down 2+ nails, topped off, and buffed with stoneskin), you should have more than enough to survive hellfire.

Truth is, Sentinel makes the fight easier because it reduces the risks of people dying from hellfire, or various other occasions during the fight. It gives you more "buffer" to "screw up". If you are complaining about people wanting you have a skill so there are more leeway during the fight, then you might as well stop playing MMOs, because no matter what MMOs you play. The community WILL figure out the most "idiot proof" ways to do things to make everyone's life easier.



Your argument really just means that both side's arguments are valid, which means you just have to find the people that are willing to accept your playstyle, and you shouldn't be forcing those who do not want to accept your playstyle to accept it.

Fact is, there are groups and people out there that are willing to take people without Sentinel (I've been on a few of those myself), they are by no means the majority, but they do exist. Just go find them, and stop complaining the ones that aren't willing to accept people without Sentinel, because it is their choice. As you stated that there really are no right and wrong in this argument, if you aren't willing to compromise, what makes others want to compromise for you?

Also, you can start your own group, no?

The damage reduced from killing two nails is so mediocre it's not even worth it >_>

[AtryxEtair]

Everyone realizes this will most likely not be a big issue after the job system implementation right?