1.2 Needs to fix Sentinel, Tanking, and XI Class-ism.

[Jennestia]

FFXI's elitism rears it's ugly head once again...

Has nothing to do with FFXI. It's an MMO thing. As long as humans continue to play MMORPGs, "requirements" and "striving for efficiency" will always exist.

[Physic]

Very simply, you don't design a skill that shaves a % of damage for whoever equips it, but one that uses the player's stats to shave a proportional amount. That way, said skill wouldn't be effective enough for mages, archers and classes without the right stats. To use that skill effectively people would need specific builds with specific classes and equipment, thus making the requirements for it too inefficient to achieve for people to blindly require others to achieve them.

tl;dr: the skill's effectiveness must be stat-dependent, not absolute, otherwise it will be required by more and more content in the future or become a development roadblock.

sentinel shaves a % of dmg off, so the better you resistance or defense, the more it shaves off. IE people with good gear get way more benefit on it.

The damage from hellfire isnt the whole fight, its one portion of it, you can only use sentinel 15 secs out of 1 minute and 7 seconds on sub, if you increase your fire resistance drastically, you will probably gain more damage reduction over time.

I havent played it, but if in fact you can reduce the dmg by destroying more towers, then there is a DD solution as well as a defensive solution. IE instead of saving sentinel and killing one tower, save bloodrite profundity and fast cast and kill two towers.

Here is the bottom line, in this case, its not SEs fault for faulty mechanics or battle design, it is the fact that no matter what the situation is, elitists are going to try and limit people in what they can do. You cannot please these people. They put the limitations on people because they want to limit them, they want to tell people you are not hardcore enough, and we are better than you. Their very purpose is to have an eclusive and elite club, they will always find a way to exclude people based on whatever they feel like.

And in this case some of them have a point, these are hardcore people willing to do whatever it takes and spend as much time as necessary to acheive this, they want people like them playing with them. They are doing you a service by refusing you, would you really want to have to try to keep up with their level hardcoreness?

[LillithaFenimore]

Hence why I only duo with my husband so I don't have to hear people fussing about my build....problem solved

However, I will have to agree, as long as people find efficient ways to do something in an MMO, it WILL be the most sought after due to it's results it produces...unfortunately. Wish that wasn't the case, but it is. In a way...I think it mimics real world scenarios...:/ and well...those aren't going to go away.

[RemVye]

I know most of what I'm about to say has been said 1000 times.

[B]tl;dr

Sentinel is broken. Requiring gladiator leveled to 36 for Ifrit is a broken mechanic

It is not a requirement. All you need is the quest.

When the servers and animation locks are fixed, I am sure this will be a thoroughly enjoyable fight.

It's really NOT hard at all to avoid being stuck in animation lock...

Unfortunately, you need to patch sentinel.

Yes nerfing another part of Gladiator would be unfortunate. It would be done right stupid. You want them to change an ability so that the LinkShells you want to get in won't make that a requirement?

The XI purist community expects everyone to level gladiator to 36 for sentinel.

FFXI Purist? How about the smart people who know how helpful it is to have that ability? Logical thinking and wanting to have the most optimal build = getting trolled by the people who refuse to put in effort to do anything they don't want to do. I don't want to craft, I don't want to farm money... but guess what, if I want gear / materia I need to do some of these things.

This type of gameplay is pathetic, masochistic, outrageous, and classist.

Define: Classist
Classism is prejudice and/or discrimination on the basis of social class. It includes individual attitudes and behaviors, systems of policies and practices that are set up to benefit the upper classes at the expense of the lower classes.[1] It can also include attitudes and behavior of prejudice and discrimination by members of the lower class to members of the higher class. (SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classist)

^Trying to stretch this definition to fit the mold of FFXIV is a bit off base.

I have no desire to play gladiator, nor marauder, nor pugilist. I am a fully dedicated mage.

No one is forcing you to do anything you don't want to, especially SE; that has been there motive for a lot of changes they are making and have made. It's your game, play it how you want! Just don't expect me and other people to want to play with you. If you aren't going to contribute effort to doing end-game, then why would anyone want you to join their LS?

My one and only example that I love reusing would be.... I don't want to buy new gear, I don't want to buy materia or spirit grind! But guess how many parties I'm going to get into if I'm refusing to wear the appropriate gear and using my Onion set or out-dated gear?

It's not the exact same situation as your argument but it's similar. There are things we don't want to do, but if you wish to contend in the end-game environment it's essential. I'm sure there are people who can beat Ifrit in out-dated gear, just like there are people who can beat him without Sentinel.

"But the armory system caters to leveling multiple classes." Yes, it does, and it rightfully should. Unfortunately, when you have skills like sentinel, that make such a dramatic impact to where guilds start demanding you level this class just for that fight -- you know it needs to be patched or something needs to be fixed.

First of all, guild? Semantics but still... this is not World of Warcraft. Sounds like you want it to be though.

Second, Sentinel is not only useful for Ifrit. I could argue the same thing about any ability. Cure / CureII / CureIII needs to be nerfed because it makes such a dramatic effect on solo leveling! The same can be said for a bunch of other skills, Second Wind, Bloodbath, Sacrifice, how about Weaponskills, how about gear?

XIV needs to move away from this terrible terrible terrible terrible design for future content.

You realize all melee class need self-heals for Ifrit too right? I don't want to level a mage.. but without the healing skills I will most certainly die. Especially if my lazy healer doesn't have sentinel, takes a ton of damage and ends up healing himself instead of the tank and DD's.

I have been turned down by two linkshells who want me to have sentinel for Ifrit.

So you didn't meet their requirements, and now you're trying to get the game changed so that you do? If you get turned down for a LS that requires you to have every class at level 50 are you going to make a post how classes should start at level 50?

Having this 'requirement' to level multiple classes to be functional in dungeons or certain fights is ridiculous. The armory system is a perfect system to cater towards diversity and 'alternate character' play, but don't abuse it by requiring people to level.

The armory system is one of XIV's best and most unique qualities. I means I can take the spells I enjoy the most from the classes that I want to play, and have a personalized character. If you're going to start requiring people to level against their desires it really takes away the fun of the game and further reinforces the fact that this is nothing more than a grind-fest until you have all the classes leveled to start experiencing the game.

Again... there is no requirement here, or anywhere. I love how you praise the Armory system for allowing you to get whatever skills YOU want, but when there is something YOU don't want to get it becomes 'abusive' and 'ridiculous'. Hypocritical statement.

You shouldn't need every single class leveled to experience end game content.

You don't need every single class leveled to experience it. Are you going to argue next that to experience end-game you have to be level 50? Last I checked, correct as I may be mistaken, you can start doing Ifrit (hyper) as soon as you complete the prerequisite quests. Pretty sure, last time I checked, you don't have to have every single class leveled.

Conclusion, you're butt hurt.


TL;DR - OP is butthurt. If we disagree with him then we are FFXI purists / trolls / fanboys.
Logic is out of the question. Because an LS wanting competent players, skilled players, geared players, efficient players, or players who put effort into completing endgame is a bad thing.... right.....

[Physic]

think what he would want is either no mages to have access to the skill, or for mages to have acess to a similar skill. But honestly if such a skill exists, it should be on gladiator, and i think the option to get some value for leveling a DoW class on DoM should exist.

on a side note, i thought emulate was better, or did they nerf its effect oh well, thats what happens when they nerf something, eventually people will ask them to nerf something else.

[Jennestia]

Yep, though emulate's nerf was well deserved lol -- Nerfing Sentinel for the mere fact you don't want to level a class to use it? Undeserved.

[Cursive]

Great post. I could not have possibly said this better myself.

Remember when addons and voice chat didn't exist? I don't recall people having trouble beating game content then.

Hive mind creates bizarre logic bubbles in game communities. It is like RDM in XI. God forbid a RDM melees in party and yet they can solo crap that groups have trouble taking down.

What can you do though? There is no cure for stupidity.

they definitely don't solo anything by meleeing it to death.

[Gally]

Killing 1 nail is the same as killing 3 nails. Killing all 4 takes hellfire to about 1200ish w/o sentinel but its better to just kill 1 and top everyone off becasue if you kill all 4 its down to the wire on time.

[Demacia]

Yep, though emulate's nerf was well deserved lol -- Nerfing Sentinel for the mere fact you don't want to level a class to use it? Undeserved.

For once I agree completely with Jennestia. It's ridiculous to nerf a good ability just because you're unwilling to meet an LS's standards. In XI you get left out for not having subjobs leveled, in WoW you get left out for not having the right gearscore. It sucks, yeah, but when my fun and my success is on the line, I sure as hell don't want unprepared scrubs holding me back.

No offense to anyone. It's a package deal that comes with MMOs. There are standards to meet if you wanna hang with the cool kids.

Me? I get by with the bare minimums. Aw yeah.

[Quanta]

For once I agree completely with Jennestia. It's ridiculous to nerf a good ability just because you're unwilling to meet an LS's standards. In XI you get left out for not having subjobs leveled, in WoW you get left out for not having the right gearscore. It sucks, yeah, but when my fun and my success is on the line, I sure as hell don't want unprepared scrubs holding me back.

No offense to anyone. It's a package deal that comes with MMOs. There are standards to meet if you wanna hang with the cool kids.

Me? I get by with the bare minimums. Aw yeah.

In the end, it all comes down to the metrics being used to measure a person's dedication and commitment. While Sentinel can be used in this fashion, it's kinda shitty to do so, especially if it's the only odd thing out on someone's application. I don't particularly think that lacking a couple of skills on other classes but hitting all other milestones is an instant indicator that the individual applying isn't dedicated to the cause (though in the OP's case, he probably isn't dedicated).