Thread: 1.2 Needs to fix Sentinel, Tanking, and XI Class-ism.

Hahaha so XI people are the only ones Killed them? :P sounds like somesort of complex you have there.

btw i survived Hellfire COUNTLESS time without sentinel, sentinels makes it easy.

whats next, complain about DDs requiring cure 2s? lol

Originally Posted by Synapse

Hahaha so XI people are the only ones Killed them? :P sounds like somesort of complex you have there.

btw i survived Hellfire COUNTLESS time without sentinel, sentinels makes it easy.

whats next, complain about DDs requiring cure 2s? lol

Yeah so have I but people still complain if you don't have it, gets old real quick.

Originally Posted by Tanoshii

Takes a few minutes to install and setup an addon, it can take days to level up a class especially if you don't enjoy that class.

Point was: Certain addons, i.e gearscore type also brings in the 'requirement' nature of players, because they'll be looking for x factor. It happens more with add-ons because certain MMOs with them give you full read outs on the player. Much like here, some people require you to have sentinel, even though it's not required but is helpful.

It's just how MMOs are these days.

Originally Posted by Jennestia

That's the life of MMORPGs these days (it does happen in others, even more so with certain type of Add-ons.)

Exactly.

Depending on how much "freedom" players are given with the add-on system for XIV, I fully expect the same thing to happen here. Certain add-ons - even those that absolutely are not necessary - will be deemed "mandatory" to have or you'll be told (ironically) to "learn how to play"... which of course, really translates into "We need you to use those add-ons because we suck and can't complete anything without them".

I always find it funny how in MMORPGs (XI, WoW, you name it), the people who are the most dependent on guides/add-ons/cookie-cutter build/etc. to beat content are the self-described "hardcores" who deem themselves "elite players". They look down their nose derisively at those who prefer not to use them and to instead, you know... play the game without training wheels and helpers.

I'm sure (unfortunately) that same "We need add-ons and walk-throughs to win" mentality is going to pervade XIV as well.

Whatever changes SE makes to the game, no matter how they try to "balance things out", the same exact thing is going to happen. The so-called "elite" are going to quickly find out which approach/build guarantees the best, most predictable outcome, create a template/walkthrough of it and then declare that all others must follow that same setup or they don't know how to play and don't get to do the content. Because, again, that's the only way they know how to beat it.

The sad thing is, many others will - without even second-guessing it or bothering to think of alternatives - will resign themselves to those guides being "the one right way to do it", and won't even try to complete the content using any other setup. Sadder still is some of them won't try for fear of being mocked and derided by other players for "not doing it right".

And please, nobody bother coming back with the whole "it's all about efficiency"... that's a player mentality. The idea of content is to experience and complete it. There is no "law" stating "it must be done in the most efficient manner possible, or you're doing it wrong". Again, that's just players who require those guides/cookie-cutter builds in order to succeed at the game twisting their own inadequacy into a mandate. They need everyone else to play a certain way in order for them to succeed.

A friend of mine created a static for Zilart, CoP and Aht Urghan. For all three, his setup was - according to the "elite" of FFXI - "the wrong setup". He was told, constantly, "you're doing it wrong", "that's not the right build", "you're going to fail without "x-jobs" for "y-fight". He was mocked by his own "elite" LS-mates who called him and his group {Too Weak}.

Lo and behold, he and his "too weak" group finished Zilart, CoP and Aht Urghan - every one straight through to the final fight.

What did an "elite" player say when he informed them of his group's accomplishments? "So what? You got lucky. I would never have let you do that in my group. You gotta learn to play the right way, man. Those guides and walkthroughs exist for a reason". My friend's response: "The point is, you and everyone else told me we'd fail, we'd never finish it, it wouldn't work, we were doing it wrong and all this. We beat it anyway and didn't need any of that. Yet you're still telling me that following those guides is mandatory to complete the content. Who needs to learn how to play again?"

Originally Posted by Preypacer

Exactly.

Depending on how much "freedom" players are given with the add-on system for XIV, I fully expect the same thing to happen here. Certain add-ons - even those that absolutely are not necessary - will be deemed "mandatory" to have or you'll be told (ironically) to "learn how to play"... which of course, really translates into "We need you to use those add-ons because we suck and can't complete anything without them".

I always find it funny how in MMORPGs (XI, WoW, you name it), the people who are the most dependent on guides/add-ons/cookie-cutter build/etc. to beat content are the self-described "hardcores" who deem themselves "elite players". They look down their nose derisively at those who prefer not to use them and to instead, you know... play the game without training wheels and helpers.

I'm sure (unfortunately) that same "We need add-ons and walk-throughs to win" mentality is going to pervade XIV as well.

Whatever changes SE makes to the game, no matter how they try to "balance things out", the same exact thing is going to happen. The so-called "elite" are going to quickly find out which approach/build guarantees the best, most predictable outcome, create a template/walkthrough of it and then declare that all others must follow that same setup or they don't know how to play and don't get to do the content. Because, again, that's the only way they know how to beat it.

And please, don't come back with the whole "it's all about efficiency"... that's a player mentality. The idea of content is to experience and complete it. There is no "law" stating "it must be done in the most efficient manner possible, or you're doing it wrong". Again, that's just players who require those guides/cookie-cutter builds in order to succeed at the game twisting their own inadequacy into a mandate.

A friend of mine created a static for Zilart, CoP and Aht Urghan. For all three, his setup was - according to the "elite" of FFXI - "the wrong setup". He was told, constantly, "you're doing it wrong", "that's not the right build", "you're going to fail without "x-jobs" for "y-fight". He was mocked by his own "elite" LS-mates who called him and his group {Too Weak}.

Lo and behold, he and his "too weak" group finished Zilart, CoP and Aht Urghan - every one straight through to the final fight.

What did an "elite" player say when he informed them of his group's accomplishments? "So what? You got lucky. I would never have let you do that in my group. You gotta learn to play the right way, man. Those guides and walkthroughs exist for a reason". My friend's response: "The point is, you and everyone else told me we'd fail, we'd never finish it, it wouldn't work, we were doing it wrong and all this. We beat it anyway and didn't need any of that. Now you're telling me that following those guides is mandatory to complete the content. Who needs to learn how to play again?"

Great post. I could not have possibly said this better myself.

Remember when addons and voice chat didn't exist? I don't recall people having trouble beating game content then.

Hive mind creates bizarre logic bubbles in game communities. It is like RDM in XI. God forbid a RDM melees in party and yet they can solo crap that groups have trouble taking down.

What can you do though? There is no cure for stupidity.

Originally Posted by Wynn

Great post. I could not have possibly said this better myself.

Remember when addons and voice chat didn't exist? I don't recall people having trouble beating game content then.

Hive mind creates bizarre logic bubbles in game communities. It is like RDM in XI. God forbid a RDM melees in party and yet they can solo crap that groups have trouble taking down.

What can you do though? There is no cure for stupidity.

Nor complacency.

Well-put, by the way .

As an addendum to the account of my friend back in XI, he was eventually kicked out of that LS for trying to suggest other ways to beat Zilart/CoP/Aht Urghan. Some other players wanted to complete it, and were being given the typical "you have to follow "x" guide and "y" party build.." routine.

My friend offered examples of how his group completed it as alternate suggestions and was promptly told - in Linkshell, not even in /tell - to "stop trying to gimp the linkshell with his fail strats". He said "They're not fail. We completed all of it with them. They're options that might be useful to them". He was kicked from the ls a little bit later.

Another member PM'd him telling him they were all ripping him to pieces for being a crap player and doing it wrong, telling the people he was giving advice to to not listen to him, to do it the "right way", etc.

Funnier still is that one person he was trying to help ended up dropping that LS pearl, PM'd my friend asking to join his and said "what a bunch of douchebags" lol.

Nice huh?