Ifrit: gimped or working as intended?

[giantslayer]

I've been doing some DPS testing with Ifrit at SSS lately and been disappointed that my results weren't as big of a DPS boost over Garuda as I had expected based on number crunching. I decided to fight the dummies with just the pets and their associated abilities (Rouse, Spur, Enkindle). At i200 on Midas, Garuda got the dummy down to 76% and Ifrit got it down to 71% on Sic or 69% on Obey.

In the process of doing this, however, I realized that something was wrong with Ifrit's damage. If you look at his base attack, Burning Strike, its damage is split up between the actual Burning Strike and a generic auto attack. There's nothing wrong with that because the two total up to the 120 potency he's supposed to have. For example, if Garuda was doing 600 damage, Ifrit was doing about 480 on Burning Strike and 240 on his auto attack, totaling 720.

The problem is with Crimson Cyclone and Flaming Crush. Instead of doing their full 110 potency, they seem to be based around the lower potency that Burning Strike is doing. In the above example, those attacks would do about 440 instead of the 660 they should be doing. Functionally, those attacks are at about 2/3 of their advertised potency.

I tested Enkindle and it seems Ifrit's damage on that ability lines up properly, so it is just Crimson Cyclone and Flaming Crush that seem to be gimped.


One other side note, it appears your class trait 30% damage buff does not apply to pet damage, so an accurate comparison of pet attack potency to character attack potency would put pet potency at 77% of its nominal value (1/1.3). That means Garuda's Wind Blade is functionally a 77 potency attack, not 100. I'm pretty sure that's working as intended, though. The part about Ifrit's two oGCD abilities is what seems off to me.

[Dyvid]

Just did test on SSS Midas and everything is working right. Ifrit's ability potency amounts are correct and separate from Auto Attack, which is normal. I'm guessing the overall dps difference you see with Garuda vs Ifrit is the benefit on Contagion. Honestly for me though the damage is almost too close to call on which pet better.

[ShinryuReishiki]

It's definitely working as intended. As a remnant of originally being Weaponskills, Ifrit's attacks still use the hidden Physical Damage stat of your weapon, which is typically ~70% of Magic Damage. For example, the Hailstorm Grimoire has 79 Physical Damage and 108 Magic Damage. Garuda would be useless if it weren't balanced as such.

As it is now, Ifrit will come slightly ahead on a dummy environment, and Radiant Shield provides a raid DPS boost. In a real encounter, however, Contagion + Tri-disaster + Dreadwyrm Trance work very well together, especially when coupled with buffs from other party members, and the extended DoTs give you much more freedom to dodge/do mechanics/whatever with less potential to lose DPS.

On the Stone, Sky, Sea - Burden of the Son (Savage), I finish with ~15s remaining with Garuda. With Ifrit, I finish with ~22s remaining. That's about ~80 DPS in favor of Ifrit, but in actual encounters, I would still favor Garuda.

[giantslayer]

Just did test on SSS Midas and everything is working right. Ifrit's ability potency amounts are correct and separate from Auto Attack, which is normal. I'm guessing the overall dps difference you see with Garuda vs Ifrit is the benefit on Contagion. Honestly for me though the damage is almost too close to call on which pet better.

Were you testing Ifrit's oGCD attacks or just his regular attack?

[Eloah]

also remember that pet potencies are not the same as our potencies. i cant use the egis as an example here but i will use the fairies, since i know them a bit better. Embrqce has a potency of 300 and so does Adlo. but Adlo, at least for me, does about 2500, where as Embrace does a little less than 2000. that means the spell is only 80% as strong as my spells. while the percentage might be different, its the same thing for the egis.

[Dyvid]

Were you testing Ifrit's oGCD attacks or just his regular attack?

I did a Sic test. Burning Strike was 120, Flaming Crush was 110, and Crimson Cyclone was 110. Garuda's Wind blade was 100, Aerial Slash 90, and Shockwave 90.

Also remember Auto Attack is a completely different damage source and not mixed with pet ability. I want to say Auto Attack is 2.5s while Burning Strike is 3s.

[Cabalabob]

As has been said ifrit's damage is physical so it's calculated differently to garuda's magic damage, so while garuda's potency is lower her base damage is higher and potencies are like a percentage of that base.

E.G. if the base damage for Garuda is 100 and the base for ifrit is 80, garuda's 100 potency attack will do 100 damage (100% of the base). While ifrit's 80 base with 120 potency will do 96 damage (120% of the base). Then auto attacks are equivalent to a 60 potency attack, so 80 base with 60 potency is 48 damage (60% of the base), making the combined total of an auto attack + a burning strike 144, compared to garuda's 100 wind blade alone.

If you look at the numbers posted by the OP you can see that they line up with this, Garuda has a base of 600 while ifrit has a base of 400, hence his burning strike does 480 (120% of 400) and his auto attack does 240 (60% of 400). While Garuda does 600 (100% of 600).

also remember that pet potencies are not the same as our potencies. i cant use the egis as an example here but i will use the fairies, since i know them a bit better. Embrqce has a potency of 300 and so does Adlo. but Adlo, at least for me, does about 2500, where as Embrace does a little less than 2000. that means the spell is only 80% as strong as my spells. while the percentage might be different, its the same thing for the egis.

This isn't to do with potencies, this is because your pet takes 80% of your stats as their own.

[Dyvid]

If you look at the numbers posted by the OP you can see that they line up with this, Garuda has a base of 600 while ifrit has a base of 400, hence his burning strike does 480 (120% of 400) and his auto attack does 240 (60% of 400). While Garuda does 600 (100% of 600).

Correct. While the potency are correct, each pet has different damage modifiers to try and make all the pets dps equal.

[giantslayer]

This isn't to do with potencies, this is because your pet takes 80% of your stats as their own.

I think the discrepancy between pet potency and character potency is the 30% Trait bonus not applying to them. That would put their potency at 77%, which is almost the same as the 80% you were saying. I know Machinist turrets don't get their Trait damage bonus. I think this is the same.

[giantslayer]

It is peculiar that both pets work from the same base potency on Enkindle, but Ifrit's other stuff works off about 2/3 the potency Garuda's stuff works off of. I wonder if Enkindle keys off of a magic potency for Ifrit instead of his lower physical potency.

I still think there was some kind of oversight in how they programmed Ifrit's damage. Everything adds up fine for his basic attack, but I find it hard to believe the developers intended for Ifrit's Flaming Crush to be weaker than Garuda's Aerial Slash.