Ninja Raiton VS Fuma

[Kouhai]

This was probably discussed heavily before but I may have found a time to use fuma over Raiton.

In my opener that I created, I have a mch buddy that I raid with, I use that physical damage buff a lot. So that means that with all my buffs up in my opener, I have DE + B4B + poison + phys vuln up from mch compared to only B4B for fuma. What I also do is I suiton at the start and let the mudra come off cd before using Kassatsu so I get two fuma shurikens buffed by B4B + poison + DE (360 pot*2) compared to a fuma + raiton buffed by B4B (360 + 396 - 1 sec gcd).

Here is a video of me doing the A7S dps check with the opener I described. It also explains that since I don't use Raiton, I lose as little gcd time as possible meaning I can also get one more attack in at the last second.
I slowed it down a bit so it's easier to see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Yr...ature=youtu.be

In this scenario, if it's just a straight parse with a mch, is it even worth using Raiton?

[Kabooa]

I feel like if you do it right, you shouldn't ever have an issue with gcd clipping on raiton.

[Alistaire]

Should add up the #s, first if you could get the same # of skills off.

Raiton = 360 +10%B4B +10%TA = 432
Fuma = 240 +20%stance +10%B4B +10%TA +10%MCH +10%DE = 384

If your next Raiton would lose buffs where fuma wouldn't then you'd do 432+ 2nd one at 360 for 792 total vs 2 boosted fumas....768. Still nope. Closer, but still nope.

[TribalReturns]

For me it's just trial and error, by that i mean finding which bosses have high magic resistance. In those instances i use Fuma and i agree with clipping. It doesn't matter how fast you are, using Raiton will always clip your next attack with high end gear. Anywhere from .10-.75 seconds depending on which ability you used before Raiton because some have longer animation delays. Long story short Fuma appears to be better on low physical resist enemies.

[Waliel]

All mobs have the same defense and resistances, zero and 100 for resistances(?), unless affected by an outside source.

[CGMidlander]

I feel like if you do it right, you shouldn't ever have an issue with gcd clipping on raiton.

https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/2015/...a-mudra-fixed/

[Alistaire]

https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/2015/...a-mudra-fixed/

And while that's good to know for its own sake and why skillspeed is bad on ninja, like I showed in my previous post, whether or not there's a delay in doing raiton vs fuma, fuma loses.

[DarkerOrange]

Raiton>Fuma at all times. Always.

With the mudra changes you have to have some serious lag to even consider using Fuma.

[SunnyHirose]

I'm not sold on that. It'd help if I had frame-by-frame mudra timings post-3.1, but here's what I'm working with.

Potency of Raiton spam: 360 / 21s = 17.1428571 pps
Potency of Shuriken spam: 240 * 1.2 * 1.1 / 20.5s = 15.4536585 pps
17.1428571-15.4536585 = 1.6891986 pps difference

Average GCD in HW does a bit more than 170 pps, so you're only coming out on top in the general case if the clipping is <10ms. That means if you have any noticeable clipping whatsoever, you've basically lost pps.

That is not to say Raiton is worse in every case, of course, especially post-3.1. With no serious lag and no Hypercharge, it's definitely worth it for the opener TA (since you should be able to get that buffed Aeolian either way), and quite possibly every Kassatsu+TA (harder to say). Obviously, Hypercharge, Foe Requiem, distance from the target, length of GCD (Slow, messed up Huton, level sync'd below Huton), any unusual physical/magical resistance buffs the target has, and fixed phase lengths are other important factors in choosing between the two as well. And I did thumbs-up preferring Raiton pre-3.2 since NIN TP was an issue then.

I'm not sure what's proper to do if it falls within a buff like IR or BfB; it's a longer window than TA and your GCDs are getting those same buffs, after all.

[DarkerOrange]

There have been calculations done that show that with no buffs active, Raiton beats out Fuma unless Raiton would clip your GCD by more than about 0.35 seconds. Full list is here: http://dtguilds.enjin.com/shastasninguide scroll down to the Fuma v. Raiton section.

The TL;DR is Raiton>Fuma, unless you have awful latency.

EDIT: I have done extensive testing for myself, and have found that my absolute worst clip with Raiton is 0.22 seconds. I have an ok broadband connection and don't use a VPN.