I think this game could use a warlock class.

[Xaeth]

I'm not sure you understood what I said...
Currently in the lore they've defined it so that egis constantly take a toll on our aether whether or not we currently have them out. Using that logic, we should be able to have two or three different egi out at the same time since they're draining me at the same rate anyway. So my point was that they introduced a plot hole by defining summoning in that way.
The fact that we originally we're going to get more egis but they changed their mind means that lore is just up to the whim of the developers and in the end it's just game design. I just think it's bad game design since it doesn't portray the image of a classic Summoner the way the other jobs portray their origins...

[Ilitsa]

I'm not sure you understood what I said...
Currently in the lore they've defined it so that egis constantly take a toll on our aether whether or not we currently have them out. Using that logic, we should be able to have two or three different egi out at the same time since they're draining me at the same rate anyway. So my point was that they introduced a plot hole by defining summoning in that way.
The fact that we originally we're going to get more egis but they changed their mind means that lore is just up to the whim of the developers and in the end it's just game design. I just think it's bad game design since it doesn't portray the image of a classic Summoner the way the other jobs portray their origins...

I understood perfectly, and counter argued it in as simple terms as possible. There is no "classic summoner" portayal, as they have been different from one another so many times. Is Rydia the "classic"? Is the FF3 job class "classic"?, FFT? FFX? FF7? FF8? They're ALL fundamentally different in some way or another, with FF9 (Dagger/Garnet and Eiko) being the closest to a repeat of FF4's, in a way. What you might mean to say is it doesn't portray the FFXI summoner class, which is perfectly fine, that doesn't mean it's "bad" or any "less" of a summoner. FFXIV's Summoner actually reminds me of Yuna's summoning, just you know, not obnoxious. Giant summons that stay out permanently are great in a single-player game. It's ugly in an MMO when you'd have 20 of them out all together.

[Alistaire]

I'm not sure you understood what I said...
Currently in the lore they've defined it so that egis constantly take a toll on our aether whether or not we currently have them out. Using that logic, we should be able to have two or three different egi out at the same time since they're draining me at the same rate anyway. So my point was that they introduced a plot hole by defining summoning in that way.
The fact that we originally we're going to get more egis but they changed their mind means that lore is just up to the whim of the developers and in the end it's just game design. I just think it's bad game design since it doesn't portray the image of a classic Summoner the way the other jobs portray their origins...

Here we go again, the "you disagree with me so you must not understand" argument. You should have a look at the link in my sig.

That actually makes a little bit of sense. Arcanists are known for using symbols and mathematical formulas for their magics, but somehow I doubt this will be able to be worked in the game mechanics

Nah, would be no problem. And in addition to that we should have some kind of a mechanic where the summoner gets eaten by a demon if they do one incorrectly, like the Rabbit for NIN but more serious.

[DragonFlyy]

snip

Unfortunately, lore must always take a back seat to mechanics, otherwise there would be some horribly over powered classes. Such as summoner, could you imagine how weak an egi would be to allow all three or more summoned at once. Unless you want people to be able to one shot a boss without a party.

[Xaeth]

Unfortunately, lore must always take a back seat to mechanics, otherwise there would be some horribly over powered classes. Such as summoner, could you imagine how weak an egi would be to allow all three or more summoned at once. Unless you want people to be able to one shot a boss without a party.

I totally agree. I just find it funny that in making this argument in the lore as for why we can't have more than 3 egis, they kinda made it questionable why we can't have more than one egi active at the same time.
And now we're getting the egis anyway albeit as glamour. I can't wait how they try to justify this in the lore as it contradicts their earlier statement... :P

[Belhi]

I totally agree. I just find it funny that in making this argument in the lore as for why we can't have more than 3 egis, they kinda made it questionable why we can't have more than one egi active at the same time.
And now we're getting the egis anyway albeit as glamour. I can't wait how they try to justify this in the lore as it contradicts their earlier statement... :P

Wait. My understanding of the lore is our inability to summon Ramuh had nothing to do with how many Egis we had but rather the primal Ramuh. Primals have different levels of power and it seems different levels of potential power. Having unsummoned Egis doesn't drain you of power. The issue is summoning them in the first place. We couldn't summon a Ramuh Egi because summoning a Ramuh Egi required more Aether than we had. Same reason we wouldn't be able to summon a Bahamut Egi. The WoL simply lacks the Aetheric reserves to summon an Egi of a Primal that powerful. That also means that Ramuh is more powerful than Titan, Ifrit and Garuda but I can believe that.

As for explaining us being able to summon stronger Egis, it would be easy to explain, particularly since research into Allag Summoners was far from over. Potentially their may be a way to perform a more efficient summoning ritual, it might require some form of special equipment such as supercharging our soulstone or it could simply be that we have grown stronger. Don't forget there is precedence in lore where the Ascian fused several of Tristan's soulstones together to allow him to summon Belias Egi.

You know what's also common with all those other FF titles except FFXIV? Summons were always massive, threatening entities, that you call once in a while to destroy your enemies. Not pokemon versions of them that you have constantly by your side in battle.

I can see why they wouldn't go with such a model in this game though. It would be too restrictive to the class as effectively its just a Job that revolves entirely around big burst CDs. Balancing those and making them effectively impressive would be difficult in FF14's combat system. They would have to be a DPS class and to accommodate making those Summons impressively destructive enough the Summoner would be quite weak without them. This would in particular be an issue in fights where mechanically timing the Summon CDs was difficult and if fights where big burst was needed Summoners might be viewed as mandatory. Further they would be a nightmare to balance between PvE and PvP.

Its the same reason that if we ever get Blue Mage, its not going to be the old style blue mage. What worked in FF11's combat system wont necessarily work in FF14.

[Mael-bess]

I can see why they wouldn't go with such a model in this game though. It would be too restrictive to the class as effectively its just a Job that revolves entirely around big burst CDs. Balancing those and making them effectively impressive would be difficult in FF14's combat system. They would have to be a DPS class and to accommodate making those Summons impressively destructive enough the Summoner would be quite weak without them. This would in particular be an issue in fights where mechanically timing the Summon CDs was difficult and if fights where big burst was needed Summoners might be viewed as mandatory. Further they would be a nightmare to balance between PvE and PvP.

Its the same reason that if we ever get Blue Mage, its not going to be the old style blue mage. What worked in FF11's combat system wont necessarily work in FF14.

I said my take on it in the previous page. The class could still be around DOTs and use the limit break every now and then. Hell there's many ways it could have been done but i'm not going to dwell much on it anyway, no huge game changing will be done just to please us big summons lovers. Right now summons are for you only to kill, what you get to use in the class is just a pet.

[Neophyte]

I want traditional melees then.

You get 1 ability called attack and (maybe) a few Techniques/abilities.

Like traditional DRG gets 1 attack + 1 jump. Get's double jump @60. Done. Very traditional, nice.