Perhaps a Simple DRK Solution

[Kabooa]

What leads you to believe this? Having BfB would encourage DRK to stay in Grit while MT. While in Grit+Darkside+BfB you are (+5% in +5% out damage) while in Darkside alone you are (+0% in +15% out damage). The difference is that BfB has the benefit of not costing any MP and not costing a GCD to revert back to the tanking stance. Further, you would not ever want to use BfB outside of Grit while MT as you would have +25% damage incoming. DRKs niche among the tanks is its ability to do the most damage while in its tanking stance, this change only improves upon that.

100% certain it's not additive.

With Grit on, Dark side pumps you up to 92% damage ( 80% + 15% of that 80%)
With BFB, it's +10% on top of that (101%)

With Grit on (75% damage taken) and BFB (+25% of that), you're taking 93.75% instead.

For the amount of damage you gain, the damage you take is not worth it. You can get this set up now by simply dropping Grit.

Edit: Apparently BFB got changed to 25% damage taken (or maybe it always was? Math edited!)

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Why would you use Grit+B4B? It would just make you take more damage with little gain.

Grit decreases all damage by 20%, regardless of how many bonuses you have.

[Frost_Tear]

snip

I love how you only cherry picked the first part lol. I guess a real simple solution wasn't good enough because you're hell bent on raising your dps.

There is no real benefit to lowering your defense and increasing the dmg you take while you're in grit besides satisfying yourself with bigger dps numbers.

The point of tanks is to be a wall and lessen the amount of dmg you take not worrying about trying to stack as much dmg %boosts as you can on yourself.

And DRK niche is being the magic dmg minigation tank. WAR is the one designed to do the most dmg while in its tank stance, That's why they get berserk maim and unchained.

B4B on tanks is just a bad idea. There is already tons of awful DRK that couldn't play the class correctly (even though it's easy) if their life depended on it. Giving them B4B would make it even worse and they would quickly rise to ranks of despised classes to run into.

[Greven]

B4B on a tank would be to dangerous, it's the reason why DRK consumes MP and not HP.

One very simple solution to give parry utility to DRK MT/OT, add potential DPS while making PS combo more sweet is adding a slashing debuff to it when non DA. It's a simple change and answers so many problems..

[Jhett_Magnum]

I think the only way for B4B to work is if they adjust the skill. So maybe 15% damage 15% taken so it's literal blood for blood lol.
Doing so would mean that B4B and Darkside with FoF would be on par damage wise.

You do have cooldowns you can use to cover the damage taken. You guys are also forgetting that Soul eater and Bloodbath can get your hp back with the more damage you deal.

The real issue here is getting a provoke if we change DRK to MRD/LNC.

[Chronons]

snip

Very cool to know its multiplicative and not additive. I wasn't sure if subsequent skills took into account the effects of previous ones or just used the base statistic. Considering that is the case I still think BfB functions well with Grit. Being that the skills are multiplicative I actually think it makes BfB better. With additive we were talking about an increase of 25% in damage taken for a 10% increase dealt according to your your numbers its actually an increase of 18.75% damage taken for a 9% increase to damage dealt. You are absolutely correct that straight dropping Grit gets you to higher dps numbers, however it costs a significant amount of MP and a GCD - doubled if you need to return back to Grit stance. Adding BfB means in times where actual stance dancing is too risky you can still pseudo stance dance.

[Chronons]

snip

I apologize if I offended you, my intent was only to address what I felt was the main claim of your post. Your proposal adds utility to DRK as OT, but doesn't address any of the other deficiencies we have discussed. BfB satisfies a number of needs for DRK besides just dps. For example, it more closely resembles the DRK lore and further establishes its unique identity among the tanks. Even if it was purely to increase dps I don't understand your negative attitude towards this? It is the same thing as stance dancing except toned back a little bit. Meaning even when you are stuck in Grit for large portions of a fight you can find moments to do "minor" stance dancing. A tanks role is to be a wall and mitigate damage, but if worrying about damage wasn't important we wouldn't stance dance to begin with. Also, DRK is the only tank that can mitigate some of the damage debuff of the tank stance 100% of the time. That's why MT damage is their niche.

[Frost_Tear]

snip

nah i wasn't in the best mood and posted before letting myself cool off. i apologize for being rude.
you make good points and i see why it does have its uses i'm just too hung up on thinking about tons of bad players using it terribly that's all really.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Very cool to know its multiplicative and not additive. I wasn't sure if subsequent skills took into account the effects of previous ones or just used the base statistic. Considering that is the case I still think BfB functions well with Grit. Being that the skills are multiplicative I actually think it makes BfB better. With additive we were talking about an increase of 25% in damage taken for a 10% increase dealt according to your your numbers its actually an increase of 18.75% damage taken for a 9% increase to damage dealt. You are absolutely correct that straight dropping Grit gets you to higher dps numbers, however it costs a significant amount of MP and a GCD - doubled if you need to return back to Grit stance. Adding BfB means in times where actual stance dancing is too risky you can still pseudo stance dance.

Normal=1.0x damage.

Why would you.. activate a B4B in Grit.. when you could drop Grit, get even MORE damage and not take as much damage?

Normal+Darkside+B4B=1.25x damage.
Normal+Darkside=1.15x damage.
Normal+Darkside+Grit=0.92x damage.
Normal+Darkside+Grit+B4B=1.0x damage. The same damage.. for just being normal.

So your idea, doesn't make a lick of sense. You would do 15% more damage just using Normal+Darkside. With Normal+Darkside+Grit+B4B your taking even more damage with 15% less damage.

[FallenWings]

Snip. ^

It has the peculiar application of multiplying hate generation further which is highly valuable for a DRK. The ability to generate more aggro in their tank stance means they don't have to do it later and can stay offgrit longer and do more Syphon Strike combos.

It's essentially a poor man's Unchained.

Unchained is a godly skill because people don't realize it's not just 33% more damage but 33% more aggro ontop of Tank stance multiplier.

Inadvertently, this is also why Sword Oath is rubbish. It doesn't have that x% effect of multiplying the aggro generation.