Tier list!

[Cynric]

xnip

One Ilm Punch goes in order of buffs used , IE , Protect > Heavy Thrust/B4b/IR, depending on the order you put them up. I think all dispel works like this, I could be wrong though. So it's a little RNG but since most people put up their best buffs first..

Yes Dragoon does win the early burst battle, right when all their buffs are up, Monk just takes less time to go back into bursting, while also having more team utility than dragoon.

Losing twin snakes is a non issue. This isn't PvE, just put it back up before you burst. I'd rather take away most of your buffs and completely halt your burst or protection while keeping my own burst CD's fresh than keep twin snakes up a little longer when I can just put it back on whenever I feel like it.

Edit: If I were to make a comparison between Monk burst and DRG burst it would be

Monk burst is available in differing levels of power anywhere between ever 40/60/and 80 seconds as well as on demand Forbidden chakra if someone is around 25%~ health.

Dragoon burst is available on differing levels of power anywhere between every 60/120 seconds however is a bit stronger than Monks burst when everything is up.

Both jobs actually have more burst ability than needed to kill someone from 100-0 quickly and still have CD's for another target.

Monk just has more to it than burst where Dragoon fortunately or unfortunately doesn't.

Dragoon hits harder, Monk hits quicker or rather more often. They're pretty comparable in the burst aspect. It's what Monk has in utility that dragoon does not that sets them apart.

[Koltik]

One Ilm Punch goes in order of buffs used , IE , Protect > Heavy Thrust/B4b/IR, depending on the order you put them up. I think all dispel works like this, I could be wrong though. .

You are wrong. It's random.

[Holicccc]

Wait scholars still pvp? When did the whm meta end lol

[Dimitrii]

Wait scholars still pvp?

Unfortunately they still do. And rather than address the job's deficiencies, or at least make it so that the job's core ability is not capable of being stripped to further degrade it's lackluster performance compared to the other 2 heals, they instead buff the job (monk) that is a direct counter to it so that it may kill off scholars even faster after stripping said ability lol.

[Excalipoor]

Yeah, against MNKs, I don't break a sweat on my WAR. Its really just more annoying than worrisome. As soon as I burst and Holmgang they usually purify and flee.

But a DRG still causes me to be mindful----I've been bursted quite well from them.

[Exira]

Tier lists really need to be mode specific. If you want to discuss classes just call it that and not a tier list. You can't make a valid one that covers both modes at the same time. I'm with the rest, DRG is above MNK and is used exclusively in premades where healers are competent. Mantra and Dragon kick doesn't win matches...DRGs do. Finally can we stop claiming that MNK is a counter to SMN? It isn't and never has been

[Cynric]

snip

I already spoke on your first point a couple of times in the thread.

Feast isn't all about burst, feast is also about mitigating burst/surviving burst, and what you can do if/after your burst is halted, or your burst is on CD, a good healer as you say can heal through both Monk and Dragoon burst(If they see it coming and aren't CC'd or being harassed too much). However Monk has more options for making that healers job harder than Dragoon does because of its utility.

Both Monk and Dragoon have a ranged heavy, Both Monk and Dragoon have stun lock abilities. Both Monk and Dragoon have fetter ward.They're both melee and have access to that limit break. But what do they have the other does not?

Dragoon has Battle Litany making your team have a possibly higher burst potential, Dragoon has the only piercing buff to speak of. Dragoon can negate its positional requirements, where as Monk can not. Dragoon has a legitimate ranged attack to kill a retreating player where as Monk only has weapon throw. Dragoon can remove a bind/heavy twice a match.

However aside from Elusive jump they only gain more damage/team damage over a monk. What happens when that burst fails or is used up?

Monk however has answers to that problem and even more ways to save the team from the burst of other players.

Somersault + Feint on a 40 second CD makes healing much harder. One Ilm Punch takes away aetherflow very quickly when used properly, It also takes away regens, shields, procs, and buffs,(Including a Tanks defensive CD's they're using to mitigate the heavy medal penalty.) Somersault itself functions as a GL3 regeneration utility, a burst CD with a short cooldown, and gives you easier access to things like silence, Dragon Kick, and Twin snakes without having to move to that particular form.

Traited Mantra makes keeping the team up much easier against incoming burst.

AoE pacification can halt burst or kill attempts by your opponents for up to 10 seconds. While also functioning as a burst CD/ Instant GL3 regain CD.

Fists of Earth helps deal with incoming burst on yourself as well.

Shoulder tackle is also a much shorter CD than either of Dragoons gap closers. Fists of wind can increase Monks ability to chase while bursting without the use of their gap closer or sprint, as well as retreat easier.

If not for the somersault change I'd say they were almost comparable because of how strong Dragoon burst can be.

As for how Monk can counter Summoner. There are a few reasons.

#1 :One Ilm Punch can knock off aetherflow, leaving Summoner without their resource needed for burst for up to an entire minute.
#2: Somersault which allows One Ilm Punch spam(among other things) and is on a 40 second cooldown(shorter than aetherflow). While also able to make it harder for them to CC if swiftcast is on CD.
#3: Dragon Kick reduces the damage they can do by a bit. Before the nerf this was not a big deal, after the nerf it makes it harder for them to secure a kill, even more so against shielded/focalized players.
#4: Traited Mantra makes it easier to deal with the damage split Summoner is capable of.

You are wrong. It's random.

Are you 100% sure? Every time I One Ilm Punch Protect always eats the first dispel. Shame there's no 1v1 to test it. =/

Maybe it's something like Shielding first? It has to have some level of non RNG to it since Protect always gets dispelled first. Out of hundreds of matches I've always had to go through Protect to get to Aetherflow or another buff.

[Renault]

I already spoke on your first point a couple of times in the thread.

Feast isn't all about burst, feast is also about mitigating burst/surviving burst

The best way to survive burst is to burst the enemy team quicker. Honestly if you think PVP in this game is not about burst you're just dumb. The only true way to counter burst is through the use of OGCDs such as Sacred Prism, Tetsudo, Attunement, etc. There's very few abilities to rely on, and honestly with as high as the damage numbers are in the feast currently, those rarely stop focused burst. (Except Attunement).

[RiceisNice]

The best way to survive burst is to burst the enemy team quicker. Honestly if you think PVP in this game is not about burst you're just dumb. The only true way to counter burst is through the use of OGCDs such as Sacred Prism, Tetsudo, Attunement, etc. There's very few abilities to rely on, and honestly with as high as the damage numbers are in the feast currently, those rarely stop focused burst. (Except Attunement).

Outbursting the other team isn't always the answer. You're not going to outburst a team that has a PLD, MNK and SCH composition because of their starting mitigation, it's straight up ridiculous and honestly far too much damage to chew through. There's other ways of mitigating their burst through shields though, and you;d want to pull a team set up like that into a war of attrition (since SCH and PLD effectiveness goes down as the match goes on due to DR and aetherflow)

The ones that get used instantly? K....lol

You're still going through a minimum of four oGCDs inbetween your aetherflow and deathflare (assuming you're going DWT and straight into deathflare). That's far from instantaneous, and losing either aetherflow or aethertrail disrupts that.

[Renault]

Outbursting the other team isn't always the answer. You're not going to outburst a team that has a PLD, MNK and SCH composition because of their starting mitigation, it's straight up ridiculous and honestly far too much damage to chew through.

This statement right here solidifies the fact that you don't have much experience in the feast. Outbursting the other team is ALWAYS the answer. That is because you win the game by KILLING OTHER PLAYERS. If I see a PLD/MNK/SCH comp I'm going to laugh at my free win. I'm also guessing you mean that this comp throws up...Mantra, Tetsudo, and Deployment+Adlo all at the start? If that happens...Just walk away. Literally wait until their Tetsudo runs out and THEN engage them.