Tier list!

[Cynric]

Also do note that B-tier isn't necessarily bad per se, Jobs in B tier just aren't necessarily as good as A or S tier jobs for a number of reasons ranging from lack of CC, being too easily countered, or lacking reliable on demand burst. (Example being : Wildfire, Between the eyes, Sidewinder, require a setup and can be dealt with easily by a capable player, or a cleanse. Where as there is no counter to a monk doing their burst rotation properly aside from healing through it, or hoping the monk didn't pop fetter ward.)

[Holicccc]

Drg should be s tier. Drg is basically the perfect melee class for pvp, they have two gap closers one being a stun, borderline retarded burst, elusive jump removes heavy and bind.

[Cynric]

snip

Dragoon does have heavy early burst, however once their cooldowns are spent if no one died they need a bit of time to set that burst back up.

However unlike Monk, their gap closers are on a 1 minute and 2 minute cooldown as opposed to a 30 seconds CD. Elusive Jump is great but only usable once every 3 minutes, that's a hefty CD for you to just be bound a second time, then slept. They also lack utility outside of damage buffs, however their CC does match up with Monk. Their full burst however takes much longer to come back then Monk does , about 2 minutes versus just 1 minute.

Their damage utility is also able to be dealt with via dispel.
However despite the fact that they lack utility, they do have great self healing, amazing burst, a free get out of bind every 3 minutes(usable maybe twice in a match), a stun and heavy, CC immunity in fetter ward. Drgs are really great early and late game. They just aren't quite S-Tier material due to a lack of utility outside of damage buffs.

Dragoon does one thing really well and that's kill someone extremely quickly , and it does that so well it's definitely A-Tier. But it doesn't bring much else outside of damage. If you let a Dragoon snowball yeah it'll destroy you. But after the initial attempt to snowball a dragoon needs to wait quite a bit before they can make you sweat again.

Maybe they're close to the borderline, if they had more utility like monk does I could see them being S-Tier, however they just don't have that utility as of this patch.

[GenericMagus]

This is probably the most accurate thing I have seen in balance of PvP atm, considering how MNK can lock down and hard counter SCH and SMN, and a co ordinated team of WHM/BLM can lockdown an entire team with sleep (SMN cc was nerfed but not Sleep, arguably the most powerful status effect in PvP). I also completely agree about SCH being C, considering that AST has a better healing toolkit than it has, and while SCH starts strong, a lack of CC and when heavily pressured it folds in on itself, lacking powerful HoTs outside of Eos, and the Lustrate tied to having Aether stacks (which can be removed). Completely agree about Dark Knight, as they offer nothing that the other tanks can't do themselves while being far inferior. Anyone still playing Dark Knight is either stubborn or doesn't know any better.

[RiceisNice]

Dragoon does have heavy early burst, however once their cooldowns are spent if no one died they need a bit of time to set that burst back up.

This is the case for any dps. The difference is that DRG's dps outside of their burst is a bit of a step up from what ranged can do, on top of the relatively stronger durability and self healing. However I still wouldn't count them to be above MNK due to the recent nerfs, that their DPS can overshadow what DRG can do, and mantra being so incredibly powerful with a scholar/nocturnal astro team.

[Cynric]

snip

Yeah I'd agree with you here, also Monk only needs about 40 seconds now for enough burst to take squishier jobs down. Forbidden Chakra + Somersault + Elixir Field + Tornado Kick + Mercy stroke inside GL3 with Twin snakes active and DK on target is enough to kill every 40 seconds. Then Howling Fist becomes available every minute to enhance burst if you feel it's needed. Monk can also counter Dragoon itself by dispelling their damage buffs. Forbidden Chakra is only limited by the player.

Monks sustain is nothing to laugh at either during the relatively short windows between burst in comparison to Dragoons. They have a shorter CD on their gap closer, As you already mentioned the traited mantra is an extreme boon to any team. Then there's the spell speed reduction utility of somersault in combination with the slow from feint. The shorter CD of somersault makes it easy to now Arm of the destroyer a healer mid heal to silence and prevent them from healing while you burst them.

The three stances Earth,Fire,and Wind increasing survival, burst potential, and chase/harass potential permanently till removed via dispel(easily reapplied) or changed out for another stance. Dragon Kick debuffs caster damage.

Even while binded a monk can build chakra for burst, switch forms to prepare to keep GL.

On top of everything Monk also has access to fetter ward and an AoE pacification(10 seconds) and instant GL3 for another quick burst or to save a healer or team mate.

Dragoon is good. Monk is ridiculous, in terms of utility, CC ,mobility, debuffing potential, burst, sustain, harass, Monk just has it all.

I think Dragoon is great it's a good job, honestly very balanced, it's not too bad and not too good. and has very little utility. Monk however is extremely borderline in the amount of options, utility, and damage it brings.

This is why Dragoon is an A and Monk is an S.

[Renault]

There's a few problems with your tier list.

Problem 1: You don't specify which game mode. You say "individual performance" but honestly if this is a Solo Queue tier, it's far off. If this is a premade tier, it is again, very far off. Different tiers of difficulty would also have different tier lists, as some classes are super good at stomping nubs while others are more effective against organized teams.

Problem 2: You offer little explanation for your choices, which makes it unclear why you believe them to be strong. By looking at your list, I'd say you chose the classes to be "S" tier just because of their CC and ability to shut down other classes. Also saying "counters" doesn't really apply for some of your tiers, especially DRK. It's not that DRK doesn't have counters, it's just that the class lacks in both damage and utility.

Problem 3: Another way it seems that you're measuring this is by a classes potential, not so much their effectiveness. For example: In a perfect condition, sleep is probably the most powerful spell in PVP. This is why I'm assuming you placed WHM/BLM in S-tier. Realistically, sleeps will be purified (or broken, if we are speaking Solo Queue), so their effectiveness is reduced, especially on WHM where every GCD counts during heavy burst.

Problem 4: MCH is easily the most broken class in the game right now for PVP, and you have it at...Tier B? It shows inexperience on your part. I'd say instead of making a tier list, a discussion should be had around making said tier list.

[Jubez187]

I don't think PLD is ahead of WAR after the patch. Especially not for solo q when it's harder to get people to actually capitalize on your CC, and the DPS alone can't kill a target (I'm usually one of the biggest contributors to DPS in most of my solo q games). Any WAR that googles how to double memecleave is going to have a far easier time in solo queue.

Peeling potential is good, but only when your DPS can do the job. If not, you're just surviving to survive, can't actually get ahead like that.

[RiceisNice]

There's a few problems with your tier list....

The thing with tier lists is that it assumes the absolute pinnacle of play and equal coordination on both sides. When you start to dive into "but in solo queue", then the entire point of a tier list is rendered moot. That being said though...

Problem 1: You don't specify which game mode. You say "individual performance" but honestly if this is a Solo Queue tier, it's far off. If this is a premade tier, it is again, very far off. Different tiers of difficulty would also have different tier lists, as some classes are super good at stomping nubs while others are more effective against organized teams.

There's only one mode to go off of right now. As I mentioned before this is entirely the basis of a tier list, what a job is capable off (versus what they can consistently pull off) and how they interact with other jobs in a party and in a battle.

Problem 2: You offer little explanation for your choices, which makes it unclear why you believe them to be strong. By looking at your list, I'd say you chose the classes to be "S" tier just because of their CC and ability to shut down other classes. Also saying "counters" doesn't really apply for some of your tiers, especially DRK. It's not that DRK doesn't have counters, it's just that the class lacks in both damage and utility.

That's what the discussion is for, I'd think. DRK has nothing to offer that both PLD and WAR doesn't already do, and doesn't excel at anything. It gets to the point that it's kind of a liability when you can't edge out in burst, pressure or protection.

Problem 3: Another way it seems that you're measuring this is by a classes potential, not so much their effectiveness. For example: In a perfect condition, sleep is probably the most powerful spell in PVP. This is why I'm assuming you placed WHM/BLM in S-tier. Realistically, sleeps will be purified (or broken, if we are speaking Solo Queue), so their effectiveness is reduced, especially on WHM where every GCD counts during heavy burst.

Again, that's sort of the point of a tier list. Even in your example, forcing a purify is an incredibly strong tool, espesically since you won't have it for other CCs or debuffs like holmgang for full swing.

Problem 4: MCH is easily the most broken class in the game right now for PVP, and you have it at...Tier B? It shows inexperience on your part. I'd say instead of making a tier list, a discussion should be had around making said tier list.

MCH can't burst against a non-ninja melee, at least not reliably from the jumpstart, and frequently going after the healer/caster is not always a good alternative either. Any burst in general gets mitigated big time with proper setups, and MCH's damage outside of burst is incredibly low even compared to SMN (whom has comparable CC and DoTs that can pressure or force a GCD to be used on cleanse). Lack of any self-preservation tools is also a set back if you don't manage to kill within the initial burst.

[Cynric]

@Renault : Rice pretty much replied exactly how I would have . I would like to note however that I will change the tiers accordingly if proof can be presented for the change, or if classes receive any valuable nerfs or buffs in two weeks. I think Rice already mentioned the point of this tier list. If I were to say make a Tier list for every situation that wouldn't really do much. As for "stomping new players" any job is fully capable of that dependent on the player.

However as rice said we assume the players are all as skilled as possible with their jobs.

The other thing I'd like to say is involving Dark Knight. Since no one has yet said DRK didn't belong in the lowest tier of jobs.

Dark Knight is just not a good job. In fact Dark Knight is probably the worst job in PVP. You're right, Dark Knight lacks CC and utility. It also lacks damage to make up for where it lacks, is worse at self sustaining itself than either PLD or WAR. In fact Dark Knight is hardly capable of sustaining itself at all.

Dark Knight also loses mana the more the fight goes on, will hardly get any returns on blood price, and actively can not carry medals and use blood weapon without dropping its mitigation (the main thing making a tank better at carrying medals).

Dark Knight has these benefits,

Delirium, Dark Mind, 20% Damage Penalty every 90 seconds, One short Stun every 25 seconds, Damage Bonus in Dark Side without grit, Dark Arts Dark Dance + Awareness. Heavy every 2 minutes.

However Low blow can only reset on you being hit, Realistically you'll only see this happen if you're last alive, the medal carrier, or a kill target. This means your Stun isn't reliable enough to lock anyone down. it can only be used for one interruption every 25 seconds.

Dark Knight has worse CC than almost every DPS, Tank, and Healer.

The utility dark knight does have that is good, like Full Swing is already present on the other tanks, while those tanks also have better burst tools, utility tools, and Crowd controls than Dark Knight has.

Dark Knight has better burst than paladin but honestly that burst doesn't mean very much, especially when it's dependent on a resource which drains throughout the battle and can not be reliably kept up.

I don't want to be blunt but, having a Dark Knight ,(instead of a Paladin or Warrior )on your team is practically detrimental to success.

As Dark Knight can not function properly in the meta. It is D tier. Before the interruption buff to casting I'd say it was C-Tier, however now? It's literally the worst job in the game for PVP.