Anima Weapons. Putting things into perspective.

[AngelicSence]

It's not hard. Savage is hard. Relic is easy but time consuming.

I'm sorry, but you can also use the word hard to describe something that is time consuming. Especially in this case. As it requires you to accomplish many tasks and run dungeons over 400 times. It's not by all means easy. In terms of difficulty, Savage is hard, I agree with that. But if I follow your instructions, I can also say savage is easy, it's just time consuming to learn.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

I'm sorry, but you can also use the word hard to describe something that is time consuming. Especially in this case. As it requires you to accomplish many tasks and run dungeons over 400 times. It's not by all means easy. In terms of difficulty, Savage is hard, I agree with that. But if I follow your instructions, I can also say savage is easy, it's just time consuming to learn.

Absolutely not.
One of the mayor design flaws of this game, and MMORPGs in general, is the notion that somehow investing time into something makes it hard or challenge, which honestly, in most cases just challenges one thing, playerbase patience.

[Moonleg]

Absolutely not.
One of the mayor design flaws of this game, and MMORPGs in general, is the notion that somehow investing time into something makes it hard or challenge, which honestly, in most cases just challenges one thing, playerbase patience.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hard

Look at definition #8 and tell me that doesn't describe the relic grind.

[Ashkendor]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hard

Look at definition #8 and tell me that doesn't describe the relic grind.

I think anyone that would describe this grind as "hard" must be new to MMO's or something. This is baby stuff.

[Moonleg]

I think anyone that would describe this grind as "hard" must be new to MMO's or something. This is baby stuff.

That's a nice little ad hominem attack you've got going there.

I've been doing MMOs since Anarchy Online went free to play, so the past 12 years or so, maybe more. Probably more.

There is nothing hard about the relic in the sense of, "Keep banging your head against this wall until luck is on your side" like getting a specific drop from a Heroically Mythical Savage Raidz0rz. There is, however, a difficulty in enduring the necessity of doing the exact same thing over, and over, and over, and OVER without tearing your eyes out from the inanity of it all.

I'll be honest, I'm about two weeks of one hour per day on beast tribes from finishing that part of my relic, and I just can't do it anymore. I have seen way too much of the Sylphlands. I have sat waiting at Quenching the Flame for 90 f'ing minutes drumming my fingers, postponing dinner and arguing with family because "It will probably spawn Soon(TM)!" The damned annoying adds in Sapsa Spawning Grounds keep preventing leader mobs from spawning because I'm under attack, however the hell that works.

The fact is, doing something for THIS LONG when there is nothing FUN about it is hard by some - admittedly not all - definitions of the word. But then, raiding isn't hard by all definitions as long as you're at least having fun and don't want to be somewhere else, ANYWHERE else rather than raiding, wouldn't you agree?

[Ashkendor]

That's a nice little ad hominem attack you've got going there.

Eh. I think that's just me being me at 5 in the morning. It wasn't meant to be insulting. There's nothing inherently wrong with being new to MMO's, and the 'or something' there is meant to cover other possibilities, though it does come off as awfully dismissive now that I read it again with more sleep. Maybe you just aren't as tolerant of this type of gameplay. Maybe you haven't played the same games I have. Korean F2P's are notoriously grindy - try an hour of killing enormous piles of mobs nonstop for 1-2% of a level. That's a soulless grind, and I spent years doing that crap because I found other aspects of the game fun enough to endure it. After that, this didn't even faze me. It barely even registered as a grind. I've done 3 of them so far and am over halfway to a 4th.

I'll be honest, I'm about two weeks of one hour per day on beast tribes from finishing that part of my relic, and I just can't do it anymore. I have seen way too much of the Sylphlands. I have sat waiting at Quenching the Flame for 90 f'ing minutes drumming my fingers, postponing dinner and arguing with family because "It will probably spawn Soon(TM)!" The damned annoying adds in Sapsa Spawning Grounds keep preventing leader mobs from spawning because I'm under attack, however the hell that works.

I avoid the Sylphlands like the plague, honestly. I hate the Sylph quests to the depths of my soul so I do Allied seals for the seeds instead. I do feel your pain on Quenching the Flame. That one's supposed to have been fixed twice now if memory serves, but still takes forever. What I do is anytime I'm down there I do the fate if it pops and store the choker if I didn't need the fate that day. Then if I'm in a time crunch I can just grab one of those. And lol yes, being under attack when the leader mobs try to spawn is annoying. I mean, I get annoyed every time I get the Amal'jaa quest that makes me gather 3 keys and then go free 3 captives because of the extra time it takes. There's a lot of annoying things about the quests, just nothing I'd actually consider hard.

The fact is, doing something for THIS LONG when there is nothing FUN about it is hard by some - admittedly not all - definitions of the word. But then, raiding isn't hard by all definitions as long as you're at least having fun and don't want to be somewhere else, ANYWHERE else rather than raiding, wouldn't you agree?

You do have a point. I've had times when I simply don't want to be at raid and it makes raiding miserable. I'll agree the relic isn't exactly fun. It's boring, it's mindless, and I can see how it might be said to be difficult simply to make yourself keep doing it.

[Berethos]

Absolutely not.
One of the mayor design flaws of this game, and MMORPGs in general, is the notion that somehow investing time into something makes it hard or challenge, which honestly, in most cases just challenges one thing, playerbase patience.

Strictly speaking, how hard or challenging something is merely an indicator of the nature of the obstacle placed between a player and their goal. Skill-based obstacles are one form (where the individual element is the most difficult part), time-based obstacles are another form (where the individual elements are often easy, but completing them all is not).

To draw on an example from my earlly WoW days - the Winterspring Frostsaber mount. You originally needed both Exalted Darnassus reputation to learn how to ride saber mounts, plus Exalted reputation with the Winterspring Frostsaber faction to purchase the mount (which alone took around 800+ quest turn ins). Neither of those had individual steps that were considered hard to do, but taken as a complete whole it was considered to be one of the more difficult mounts to obtain due to the time commitment.

That only skill-based obstacles are worthy of being called hard or a challenge is a player invention.

Therefore the extra effort it requires in total is justified, especially for those who are progressing through savage.

There's still the issue that the extra effort it requires was explicitly designed that way due to a situation that no longer applies, so I can't agree that the current extra effort is still justified.

[Ultimatecalibur]

There's still the issue that the extra effort it requires was explicitly designed that way due to a situation that no longer applies, so I can't agree that the current extra effort is still justified.

Depends on where you are measuring from and to where. Its easy to complain about the Anima i210 step taking to long when compared to getting an i210 Esoterics weapon, but right now the entire Anima quest need to be compared to the 7 week Midan Gear timelock on getting an i230 Lore weapon.

[Berethos]

Depends on where you are measuring from and to where. Its easy to complain about the Anima i210 step taking to long when compared to getting an i210 Esoterics weapon, but right now the entire Anima quest need to be compared to the 7 week Midan Gear timelock on getting an i230 Lore weapon.

I'd honestly be surprised if anyone felt like the 7 week time-lock on getting the 230 lore weapon was comparable to the entire Anima process. Very, very surprised.

[Whiteroom]

I'd honestly be surprised if anyone felt like the 7 week time-lock on getting the 230 lore weapon was comparable to the entire Anima process. Very, very surprised.

Time wise, you can pretty easily have the 210 well within that. And given that you have had what, about 14 weeks to complete it....

I realize the effort is greater for the relic, but really, you wer given far more than enough time to pick it up casually. I really don't think the Relic quest is for you, if you don't like it, you don't do it. However you must want the bebefits that come with it, just not the cost of those benefits... that's really al there is to it.