How much 1.0 lore is still canon, and what is the link between Roegadyn and Dragons?!

[zaviermhigo]

The Roegadyn are a maritime people whose largest concentrations are found in the northern seas, by way of which they came to Eorzea.

So they are from North of Eorzea, makes sense why they inhabited Abalathia, and them being in LL makes sense if the Seawolves are supposed to be like vikings (they went everywhere by sea, even far away places).

The Sea Wolves hail from the islands of the far north seas, where they subsist as fishermen and -women. Long ago, no vessel or coastal village was safe from their maritime brand of brutality. Now, it is not uncommon to see them employed as sailors or naval mercenaries on all manner of vessels.

Just more reinforcement of the idea that Roegadyn come from North of Eorzea, why else is it "the northern sea". As far as I can see we can't see said Northern Sea on any map of Eorzea at the moment.

The Hellsguard are a clan of Roegadyn with body and mind tempered by the unforgiving heat of the volcanic regions they inhabit. Believing the mountains of flame to be gates to the underworld, their line has for centuries stood vigil over them to prevent the passage of souls back to the realm of the living. Their sheer girth and steely demeanor open to the Hellsguard a wide range of paths, from the martial to the monastic.

As they hail from the volcanoes of Abalathia's Spine, they have no real city to call their own (and many Hellsguard seem to like it that way). If they are to be found in number in any city-state, it is in Ul'dah, where there is no shortage of the sort of sell-sword work that many wandering Hellsguard engage in - and no shortage of coin with which to pay them.

Ok so Hellsguard are from Abalathia's Spine and inhabit Volcanoes around the region.


The Abalathia's Spine region is the entire northern mountain region of Eorzea, it’s pretty big, we can only go to a small portion of it, most of it has been inaccessible to us until airship technology became more widespread. The closest region other than the 2.0 regions to Abalathia's Spine are the Dravanian regions. Filled with dragons and their ancient tongue.

We learn from the lore Q&A

Every dragon has a name in the base draconian tongue, including the more prominent figures such as Bahamut, Vidofnir, Midgardsormr, etc. The 'Eorzean' names have been earned through the dragons' interactions with past civilizations. The elder dragons (especially those of Midgardsormr's first brood) have spent thousand (tens-of-thousands) of years roaming about Hydaelyn. During that time, they have come in contact with many different peoples--some primitive, some advanced. Some with which they warred, some with which they fostered peace. Those peoples gave the dragons names in their own tongues. Some were based on existing words in those tongues, while others were phonetic interpretations, bastardizations, and subsequent degradations of a language that they could not accurately pronounce. These names took hold amongst the people of Eorzea, being passed down orally and in print, and effectively became the second names of the dragons. Rather than fight this, it was ultimately easier for the dragons to simply allow man to call them what they wished. Some of the dragons have even grown fond of these names, choosing to use them even when speaking with other dragons (who would otherwise know them by their draconian names).

Some dragons have very nordic sounding names. They may have been given by the Elezen who met them from their own tongue, or it could be sort of a bastardization of the original dragonspeak.

Roegadyn language (originally, Hellsguard or Lohengarde took the Eorzean common tongue) is based loosely off Northern Germanic languages (Scandinavian region, Vikings basically) and here we have Dragons with names taken out of norse mythology (the same languages).

My questions:

• Did Elezens speak sort of a proto germanic language?

  Looking at Frankish, yeah its more Germanic, but not like norse languages at all, so this is not likely. Elezen language is shown to be more French, even in Ishgard.

• Instead were they just trying to emulate dragonspeak?
  For Example:

  The Whilom River -> wa[h]r a[h]lm (calm water)

  Mare’s Oath -> ma[h]r ro[h]s (summer woken)

  Halo -> w[h]ei lo[h]s (the path to loneliness)

  Seems entirely more likely.

• How did roegadyn's language end up so similar to the names of these dragons (names given by man)?

  I could be looking too much into it, but like SERIOUSLY, Fernehawles is always one step ahead of me, and like me he's totally a linguistic nerd, and unlike me he got to work on 1.0 (lore cohesion) So I'm thinking there's a link between the roegadyn language and dragonspeak in general, or maybe some Roegadyn myths got turned into Eorzean myths over time / assimilation and the people grew to know those names of dragons through roegadyn (less likely imo).

• Is the lore about where roegadyn come from still good lore?

  Seems like it since the 2.0 website still lists them from hailing from the Northern Seas and Hellsguard are still from Abalathia's Spine.

[Anonymoose]

Everything said in 1.0 is still canon. Not all of it is relevant or applicable to 1 Seventh Astral Era, but very little has been what you might call "retconned".

Now, not to undercut big sections of your question, but two bits of information might help clear up a chunk of the big picture.

• The section of Abalathia's Spine that the Hellsguard primarily come from is called The Farreach. It's not particularly far from Dravania, but when you take into account that Eorzea is a one of the Three Great Continents and that we glaze right over huge sections of it for the sake of game design, it's not particularly close, either.

• The main reason Roegadyn names are Germanic is because each major development language is represented in a race's naming conventions and Roegadyn got German. The main reason some dragon names sound German is because many dragons are named for real-world mythology, and some real-world dragon myths are Germanic. The main reason some Dragonspeak has sounds that appear in German is because Dragonspeak uses a lot of the most basic and most familiar roots for real-world words (Akh, meaning circle, comes from arc, for example). It shows that Dragonspeak evolved into something very complex, but then kept evolving to become much more efficient.

That said, languages in Eorzea are not as new as cities, cultures, or even some of the clans. There could be all sorts of interactions that we don't know about; backstory applied to explain various coincidences - sometimes because it was needed, sometimes because they had a fun idea and ran with it.

For example, as you quoted above, some dragons are given real-world names that have been used in Final Fantasy for ages. Say, Nidhogg, for example. To explain away how the Celestial Dragon has a real-world name from North Germanic cultures, they decided that Nidhogg does have a Dragonspeak name, but that he chose to use one that that was given to him by another culture on Hydaelyn whose language happened to be "akin" to a Germanic language, the way Garlean is "akin" to Latin, or Eorzean is "akin" to English. Maybe he was named by Roegadyn! (DUN DUN DUNNNNN)

You never know when that kind of stuff will turn up, so I can't speak for it. There might be connections like those you're wondering about that just haven't been revealed, or even thought of, yet. Fernehalwes himself is probably the only one who can field that part.

[Morningstar1337]

o if I read the OP right, Sea Wolves were not native to Eorzea, but Hellsguards are? Was there some continental drift in play here?

[Zohar_Lahar]

Just more reinforcement of the idea that Roegadyn come from North of Eorzea, why else is it "the northern sea". As far as I can see we can't see said Northern Sea on any map of Eorzea at the moment.

The Bloodbrine Sea would be the closest match. You can see it from Idyllshire.

o if I read the OP right, Sea Wolves were not native to Eorzea, but Hellsguards are? Was there some continental drift in play here?

Abalathia's Spine certainly makes it look like there were plate tectonics involved.

[CyrusArjuna]

Considering all the apocalyptic nonsense that seems to happen regularly on Hydaelyn, it wouldn't be much of a stretch. Maybe the earthquake that destroyed the Allagan Empire was the cause of the Roegadyn clans evolving different traits?

[Anonymoose]

o if I read the OP right, Sea Wolves were not native to Eorzea, but Hellsguards are? Was there some continental drift in play here?

The races have traveled far and wide and have risen and fallen in population in a given area over and over. What we see today is just the current status quo. Anything's possible.

This is an unconfirmed inference, but it looks like (in the case of the Elezen, Lalafell, Hyur, and Roegadyn) the clans were developed to reflect one being closer to the "original" group that came to Eorzea after the floods, and one that developed relatively recently. For instance, the Duskwight seem to be connected to living in Gelmorra and then not re-integrating into Gridania. The Dunesfolk seem to have arisen from living in Thanalan instead of the south sea islands or the La Noscean plains. The Highlanders seem to have adapted to the harsh regions of Gyr Abania. And the Hellsguard seem to have adapted to life in the Farreach. This only seems to break with the Miqo'te, who had established their clans before coming across the frozen seas from Meracydia.

What are now known as the Plainsfolk could be closer to the "original" Lalafell the way the what are now known as the Wildwood are closer to the Elezen of Ishgard, who've been distant from that divide for over a thousand years. In the same way, the Sea Wolves might be closer to the Roegadyn that came from the North, while the Hellsguard adapted to the volcanic Farreach later.

[Annana]

The Bloodbrine Sea would be the closest match. You can see it from Idyllshire.


Abalathia's Spine certainly makes it look like there were plate tectonics involved.

Of interest. Both the Bloodbrine Sea and the Farreach exist on the Eorzean map in game.


Bloodbrine Sea in Dravania


Bloodbrine Sea and The Farreach in Alabathia's Spine.

The Bloodbrine Sea seems to be analogous to the real world Arctic Ocean.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

The Bloodbrine Sea seems to be analogous to the real world Arctic Ocean.

Wait, isn't Aldenard roughly analogous to Africa, not Europe? That'd make the Bloodbrine like...the North Atlantic, or maybe the Mediterranean.

[zaviermhigo]

snip

Yes, you did help me out, I know I kinda sounded like I thought dragons and roegadyns were super close and super related, but what I was ineloquently getting at was like...making a proto language type deal, and I feel like what you wrote really drove that home, not saying its fully that, but it seems that Dragonspeak being "classy" to speak to certain types and through Elezen's bastardizations has promulgated.

The interesting question I still have is....Why are they norse named, outside of Norse mythology has a bunch of questions.

Sorry for not coming back sooner, been writing a few chapters for a book in law school and its been terrible to my life :/

I am also a believe of one clan being a progenitor and one clan being "affected"
With Xaela being the progenitor and Raen being civilization affect.

I would really like every clan to have one cultural center you could kinda go to, I know it doesn't make sense for all, but since we're so close to the Farreah (its like an airship ride away) it'd be nice to see something from them, kind of like I'd love to see w. shroud, I agree it probably has more gelmorran ruins in it. So much lore to explore, but we'll probably go east next, still awesome though.

[Annana]

Wait, isn't Aldenard roughly analogous to Africa, not Europe? That'd make the Bloodbrine like...the North Atlantic, or maybe the Mediterranean.

If it were one of the two, I'd say that it was closer to the North Atlantic. I sort of got caught up in my headcanon of ancient Roegadyn being similar to Vikings. Plus I always equated Africa to Merycidia.

There was also that rough trace of where the continents of Hydaelyn lined up here that puts Aldenard at pretty far north.



Though admittedly it's still hard to tell right now. I'm hoping that with 4.0 our world map will expand to show more.