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  1. #11
    Player
    Zaj_Quilos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    130
    Character
    Zaj Quilos
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    I find many uses for CO. It's pretty flexibile.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,863
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by tjw View Post
    Speaking technically, that IS how other cooldowns work, applying the cooldown with the effect goes off. Similar in vein in how Ninjutsu also only starts the cooldown after triggering the current Ninjutsu, and less noticeably but still the same, Forbidden Chakra.
    I get what you mean with Ninjutsu, though until AST it was the only CD that functioned that way, so I feel like it could have been treated like the outlier among secondary-effect CDs, rather than the necessary precedent for Draw or Spread. But the Forbidden Chakra doesn't actually go either way. It has zero cooldown interaction with Meditation, its prep or primary effect. The fifth Meditation changes Meditation to the Forbidden Chakra outright; the fifth ability/weaponskill cooldown doesn't actually trigger any lockout of TFC apart from animation lock, nor does TFC itself trigger any cooldown for Meditation. I don't see the relation...
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player
    tjw's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    252
    Character
    Kyan Ashton
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    I get what you mean with Ninjutsu, though until AST it was the only CD that functioned that way, so I feel like it could have been treated like the outlier among secondary-effect CDs, rather than the necessary precedent for Draw or Spread. But the Forbidden Chakra doesn't actually go either way. It has zero cooldown interaction with Meditation, its prep or primary effect. The fifth Meditation changes Meditation to the Forbidden Chakra outright; the fifth ability/weaponskill cooldown doesn't actually trigger any lockout of TFC apart from animation lock, nor does TFC itself trigger any cooldown for Meditation. I don't see the relation...
    Forbidden Chakra works similar to Spread, rather than Draw/Ninjutsu. The ability actually has a 5 second cooldown which is practically negligible, however, much like how Spread goes on cooldown after using the spread card but Draw doesn't, Forbidden Chakra goes on cooldown but not Meditation.

    And the only precedent for Draw's cooldown mechanic is Ninjutsu. No other ability before Heavensward had multiple abilities stemming from a singular source as Ninjutsu and Draw does. So it makes sense for those two to share the same cooldown mechanic.
    (1)

  4. #14
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,863
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by tjw View Post
    Forbidden Chakra works similar to Spread, rather than Draw/Ninjutsu. The ability actually has a 5 second cooldown which is practically negligible, however, much like how Spread goes on cooldown after using the spread card but Draw doesn't, Forbidden Chakra goes on cooldown but not Meditation.
    The TFC cooldown itself does nothing as it takes 4.8s + activation time (considerably more, depending on your ping, than .2s), though, unlike Draw. I'm honestly not sure why it's there--it makes zero difference. Like Ninjutsu, it may give precedent programming to some extent, but there's no similarity in gameplay effect. TFC's 5s CD does nothing. Similarly, there is no reason to hold a Ninjutsu, except to prep for a coming add to get the oGCDs out of the way; it advance the CD, and cannot be woven. A delay in Draw's card use, however, is weavable, often ideal for the buff's target, and yet the AST is punished for doing so solely by nature of that cooldown's trigger timing (on release, rather than on use - 1 click just to see what you have, another to use it). In either case though, my point is that AST gameplay would feel more powerful through its own unique toolset, while gaining QoL changes that make it feel both more tactical and yet lenient, if Draw and Spread simply triggered the cooldown the other way, in the background (like TFC's pointless 5s CD while restacking Chakra). Though, ideally, I'd still want those slight changes to Ewer/Spire (combine) and Spear as well. Those are all the changes I'd want for AST.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player
    Archvile78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    396
    Character
    Xander Vermillion
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    I mainly use CO + Luminiferous Aether, that extra 5 seconds of MP regen is handy. Sometimes, i also use it to stun big pull then immediatly chain it with CU.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player
    AngelicSence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    233
    Character
    Arch Ultia
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by lordparanoia View Post

    What do you think about it? Are you ok with CO rght now?
    Yeah, I can't agree more with you. It's a final spell that has 2 minutes CD.. and all it does is stun enemies for 4 sec and extend buff for 5 seconds. Well, I don't think they should add anything except reduce CD. I can see SE taking this approach actually..

    But if you want to see Assize like effect.. If I were to design this spell: Celestial Opposition: Stuns all enemies for 4 seconds. Additional effect: Bestow shield to all nearby allies +15% HP (stack with other shields)
    Additional effect: HoT 150 potency for 4 sec.
    Additional effect: DoT 150 potency for 4 sec.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player
    DarkmoonVael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,014
    Character
    Darkmoon Vael
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by AngelicSence View Post
    Yeah, I can't agree more with you. It's a final spell that has 2 minutes CD.. and all it does is stun enemies for 4 sec and extend buff for 5 seconds. Well, I don't think they should add anything except reduce CD. I can see SE taking this approach actually..

    But if you want to see Assize like effect.. If I were to design this spell: Celestial Opposition: Stuns all enemies for 4 seconds. Additional effect: Bestow shield to all nearby allies +15% HP (stack with other shields)
    Additional effect: HoT 150 potency for 4 sec.
    Additional effect: DoT 150 potency for 4 sec.
    HoTs and DoTs ticks once every 3 secs. Any HoT/DoT duration that isnt divisible by 3 has superfluous duration on it.
    (1)

  8. #18
    Player
    Alistaire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,980
    Character
    Your Character
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Archvile78 View Post
    I mainly use CO + Luminiferous Aether, that extra 5 seconds of MP regen is handy. Sometimes, i also use it to stun big pull then immediatly chain it with CU.
    Exactly this. A stunned pull right before Collective Unconscious means 4 more seconds of uptime and pretty much negates the possibility of using CU then needing to avoid an aoe so fast that the regen doesn't apply.

    Also I've said this in several other threads and it's as true here:

    You can't balance jobs based on individual abilities. No ability "needs a buff". Only jobs. If a job underperforms, you buff it by buffing one or more abilities. You might as well say foresight needs a buff. Sure it's underwhelming but it's a tool all tanks have access to, and nobody says "man I wish tanks could foresight better"; it's the whole package that counts.

    And yes AST overall is still underwhelming, so the idea of buffing this ability isn't necessarily a bad idea. But if it's a good idea it's not because of the ability itself but the job using it.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alistaire; 04-01-2016 at 04:36 PM.

  9. #19
    Player
    Zaj_Quilos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    130
    Character
    Zaj Quilos
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    The only time I ever use CO with Luminous Aether now is when i'm being raised otherwise it's a waste to use with that skill.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player
    AngelicSence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    233
    Character
    Arch Ultia
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael View Post
    HoTs and DoTs ticks once every 3 secs. Any HoT/DoT duration that isnt divisible by 3 has superfluous duration on it.
    Let it tick by 2 seconds. Or 6 sec in that case. But I think my point was that, for 120 sec CD ability. CO should be packed with more stuff.
    (0)

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