Lore, FFXI or FFXIV

[Keramory]

I spend a lot of time at work on wiki during down time, and have been recently going through both ffxi and Ffxiv lore and storylines through various expansions and what not.
Now there's always been debates and topics conparing the two games gameplay, classes, mechanics and what not... But I was curious... What do many find different/better/worse when comparing the two games rich stories and lore?

[CyrusArjuna]

It seems like FFXIV is a bit more dedicated to fleshing out the world of Hydaelyn compared to XI's treatment of Vana'diel. I feel like even though HW isn't even finished yet we've already learned more about the Allagans than we learned about the Zilart during their relevance to XI's story (which was the first two expansions). XI certainly had some pretty cool ideas for Vana'diel (like the fact that the Avatars, XI's version of Primals, each had their own constellation that was plainly visible in the night sky) but it also left a bunch of hanging plot threads (like the Olduum, which were introduced in the 3rd expansion but never followed up on).

FFXIV is handling its lore and world building much better than FFXI did. I still have a place in my heart for Vana'diel, but I'm glad that the devs seem to care about making Hydaelyn feel like a world with a rich history behind it.

Edit: How do I add spoiler tags to posts? I had a big block of text I had to remove because of character limits

[Tanathya]

Even though they're trying to flesh out the lore in FFXIV a bit (and I emphasize a bit) further than in FFXI, the fact that the world feels empty and uninteresting gameplay-wise makes it a chore for me to get into it in many cases, because it doesn't make me wonder about what has happened in X or Y place. One of my favourite places in the game are the Hinterlands, because it's beautiful, but I truly don't care about what might've happened solely because of what I said. If traveling was a thing, and if it felt like a true adventure it would bring the game to a whole new level to me.

[CyrilLucifer]

I do not believe in comparing which is objectively better, but I do feel that some have stronger suits.

The God-meta is completely crazy in XI, and possibly even inconsistent within itself with the introduction of Hades in Seekers of Adoulin. By virtue of having some form of sanity (so far), XIV wins here.

I felt a lot more immersed in the world of XI. This likely comes for two reasons:
1. The style of MMO. XI's expansive world doesn't really lend itself well to modern MMOs.
2. Less hand-holding, so you had to go around talking to NPCs and putting together clues for what/where you're supposed to look for. Of course, this borders on absolutely stupid at times when you have to go somewhere completely on the other side of the world for a side quest with no information on where to go, how to pop a monster, and sometimes even how to kill it.

I am a firm believer that ToAU is one of the best newly introduced lore-intensive expansions in a MMO. A lot of the time with Expansions, as was the problem with Heavensward (and Seekers of Adoulin), an area sounds much more interesting and appealing before you visit it due to the mystery. You fill in the blanks in your head and therefore have an amplified picture of it that the "real deal" almost never matches up to. ToAU broke that rule completely.

I'm also fully convinced that XI's BLU is the most interesting class, lore-wise, in the entire series. There's a cutscene in there where you have to hunt down an insane colleague and, when you find him, he's walking on the roof with his spine shattered and a broken neck turning into a soulflayer. ****'s crazy.

So far, XI has done multiverse better than XIV, despite XIV canonically having one. This isn't really a fair comparison yet, though, because XI had a full expansion, three mini-expansions, and two battle systems (Dynamis, Provenance) detailing some of these multiverses. In XIV we've no elaboration at all because we've barely had the fact that they exist confirmed. I vote "give it time" for this one, it's impossible to make a judgement.
(though honestly, unless we get to face a tainted AU version of ourselves in battle, it's going to be hard to top XI here, and even then it probably won't; if there's one thing XI did extremely well, it was multiverses).

I'm fond of Primals over Avatars in just about every way and I feel like they're more developed on the lore-scale in general. The same goes with magic in XIV. However, I'd put the XI summoning of Fenrir right up there with XIV Bahamut in terms of lore impact, because it led to some incredible side stories and characters.

On the subject of Bahamut. . .
The biggest difference in lore between modern XIV and XI is that the "world changing" event happened very recently, vs 20 years in the past. It's basically just whichever you prefer here, however I will say that the original XIV (not ARR) handled the Calamity much better than WotG did. While WotG was extremely interesting on the meta and multiverse scale (and XIV will be taking cues from it, if Yoshi is to be believed), what it was actually supposed to focus on - the war - was handled miserably.

On the subject of more ancient history, I find the Zilart far more interesting than the Allag, but I do love just about everything on the War of the Magi. Tie.

[Nalien]

I'm fond of Primals over Avatars in just about every way and I feel like they're more developed on the lore-scale in general.

Hmm... I'm much more fond of XIs Elemental six than XIVs... The backstory surrounding the Avatars just blows what most of the Primals have out the water... We've got some mythology for Primals, but for the most part its a couple sentences at best... Good King is probably my favorite, just from speculation on his origin (their relation to the Twelve being Thordans Twelve Knights, rather than the Twelve, the calamity in the sky being Nidhoggs rage, rather than second(?) Umbral Era, etc.), but even that pales in comparison to the short stories we got with the six Avatars...

I think XI did a much better job of making the summons part of its world, where as with XIV they're just there because its a Final Fantasy title and here's a quick justification for their existence... Even if most of the short stories revolving around the Avatars had absolutely no grounding in the game (though Ramuhs Olduum civilization eventually bore fruit).

[Tanathya]

Hmm... I'm much more fond of XIs Elemental six than XIVs... The backstory surrounding the Avatars just blows what most of the Primals have out the water... We've got some mythology for Primals, but for the most part its a couple sentences at best... Good King is probably my favorite, just from speculation on his origin (their relation to the Twelve being Thordans Twelve Knights, rather than the Twelve, the calamity in the sky being Nidhoggs rage, rather than second(?) Umbral Era, etc.), but even that pales in comparison to the short stories we got with the six Avatars...

I think XI did a much better job of making the summons part of its world, where as with XIV they're just there because its a Final Fantasy title and here's a quick justification for their existence... Even if most of the short stories revolving around the Avatars had absolutely no grounding in the game (though Ramuhs Olduum civilization eventually bore fruit).

I remember avatars having a developed lore, and they had stories explaining how they turned to be celestial avatars, so I agree with this. FFXIV's feel somewhat shallow, most of them.

[CyrilLucifer]

I think XI did a much better job of making the summons part of its world, where as with XIV they're just there because its a Final Fantasy title and here's a quick justification for their existence... Even if most of the short stories revolving around the Avatars had absolutely no grounding in the game (though Ramuhs Olduum civilization eventually bore fruit).

I originally had something similar to that typed up with the Fenrir comment. Fenrir really felt like his summoning impacted and molded so much of Windurst's current culture. In XIV, I want to say the summoning almost feels detached. However, I prefer the idea of strength based upon the summoner's faith, and how it can be twisted and mutated so yes, Thordan is exactly what I enjoy about XIV's summons.

Actually, I feel the same with Beast Tribes. Again this may just be the XIV method of storytelling, but I feel like XI's beast tribes are a lot more integrated into the culture of the cities. XIV suffers a lot by using the current modern MMO storytelling methods for quests, in my opinion.

Belated edit: I'd also like to give Bastok a neat little thumb's up for basically being the only "industrial" city in a fantasy MMO that I enjoy from a lore perspective. I love the struggle for natural resources with the Quadav, I love the class struggle and racial struggle, and I love how those all accumulated into an embodiment of hate that almost destroyed the world (or actually did, in the true XI universe. yay multiverses). It's not like the fake pretentious "aloof" racism in San d'Oria or what we see in Gridania that is more of a "tell, don't show" type racism. I feel like Ishgard is trying to emulate it, but it isn't really working.

[Nalien]

I remember avatars having a developed lore, and they had stories explaining how they turned to be celestial avatars, so I agree with this. FFXIV's feel somewhat shallow, most of them.

I think the Avatars had more gravity behind them... They were old gods, somewhat similar to Zodiark I guess, that had to be kept in slumber for the same reason we don't want Zodiark revived, they'd want to return the world to how it was and that's bad for reasons... Except, if the short stories they all had are to be believed, Altana took measure to invest them in Vana'diel by merging them with mortals, who were the subject of the short stories. That was a lot more interesting than "lawl, aetherial god like beings", at least so far since Primal mythology really hasn't been fleshed out much. More so when you get to Alexander and Odin... I was convinced ToAU was essentially going to an expansion telling the story of Alexander and Odin getting the same treatment the elemental six got in their short stories... The entire expansion played out like one of those short stories... All the way though Wings of the Goddess, I was expecting Treasure (since there was more overlap with expansions in XI) to conclude with Altana merging Odin and Luzaf, Alexander and Razfahd... Instead Odin pops up and is responsible for the Shadow Lord? Meh... Dread to think where they went with RoV...

[CyrilLucifer]

I view Promathia more like Zodiark and I'm almost positive that's the intention (Promathia was Altana's counterpart/lover, Zodiark is Hydaelyn's other half/possible other things that we don't know).

But the Avatars embody what I mean by the Gods being absurd in XI. They come in so many layers and flavors that organization is almost impossible. Terrestrial, Celestial - and then you have the 'higher' Gods above them. I mean, it's not terribly different from Eikon/Primal, I think the difference is "false" versus "true."

I just wasn't fond of XI's God meta, I guess. I'm also not terribly fond of XIV's Twelve for the same reason; it just isn't the flavor I prefer my lore in.

I will say that Odin being behind basically everything was pretty obnoxious, straight out.

[Tanathya]

Snip

Primals feel kinda forced, and they're an essential part of the story, so that is why I feel the story of FFXIV to be not as interesting under my point of view.