Question about tanking an aoes in endgame trash

[Februs]

I'm a bit late to the party, but there's really only 3 options when it comes to AoE positioning.

The first is soaking or mitigating the dmg. I don't recommend this one, but it's an option. Most mobs who use AoE's are roughly in sync with one another, kinda like women who live together. This means you can plan your defensive CD's accordingly to soak the dmg. You can also mitigate additional Dmg by saving your stuns for those AoE casts. Pld can do this most efficiently (though at the cost of the most enmity), but every tank can stun at least one AoE to reduce the incoming dmg. If you save a heavy defensive CD for the rest (ie: Sentinel, Shadow Wall, Vengeance), you can soak the rest of the dmg without giving your healer too many gray hairs. It's a good thing to keep in mind if you absolutely have to keep position for some reason (such as tight corners, avoiding premature pulls on the next set, environmental hazards, etc).

The second option is re-positioning, or what I like to call, "the circle jerk." This will never go flawlessly for you because mobs tend to push each other around when they're in tight groups, but you can dodge an AoE and immediately move back into position afterwards to keep the mob as stationary as possible. The plus side here is that it saves you some unnecessary mitigation. The downside is that enemies will wiggle around a little, and you'll lose personal position which can cost you ideal targeting, forcing you to land a strike on a different opponent or pop an extra Enmity AoE of your own to hold aggro.The amount of wiggling that the mobs do is typically determined by the size of the AoE you're dodging as well. More movement on your part means that you'll be dragging mobs around, and that can lead to a really bizarre circular movement around the group, especially if multiple big AoE's go out shortly after one another. Again, though, stuns and soaks can help reduce that movement. Use them wisely, but always be aware of your enmity and timing.

The last option is "the drag." This is best used in narrow hallways or long stretches of space. Position them in front of you, like normal, and drag them backwards to avoid AoE's. Instead of moving side to side to dodge the AoE's, you're moving steadily back. The mob will follow you, so they're still moving, but Dps will maintain positional bonuses because the mob is never actually turning. They're just slowly moving in a straight line. Keep in mind that this is best done in a slow and steady movement. Fast drags cause mobs to wiggle around a lot more as they push each other to try and catch up to you. you'll also run out of space a lot faster, so it's not recommended. Instead, you just want to slowly and easily back step out of their AoE, and then hold position until the next one. Stuns, again, come in handy here because they reduce the amount of back peddling you need to do. Locking target is another good option as it keeps your front to the enemy, especially on War since they also have to be aware of their flanks during Raw Intuition (just remember to disengage it after the back peddle is done, so that you're not locked onto the same target the whole time).

There are a few other small things that can help, but this is the meat and potatoes of it. Hope it helps.

[chidarake]

a good tactic if space permits is once you have the trash facing you stand either to the left or right of where you want to tank, when aoes come move to the otherside and then tank there then keep switching sides as needed, this way mobs only move to the left and right its easy for melee to keep tracki off and adjust with for the most part,

[therpgfanatic]

Melee DPS are largely to blame. They have off GCD stuns -- hell, DRG even have two. But most DPS players don't use them to interrupt wide circle AoEs, and would prefer to try to run away even though it's more effective to stun at least 1 or 2 of the enemies casting AoE and continue DPSing.

I find trying to stun myself to be utterly pointless because for some reason, Shield Bash is on the GCD. With my luck, I always will have just used part of my combo and have to wait 2.5s before I can even try to stun, and enemy cast times seem to be around 3 or 4 seconds. Add animation delay to the mix, and by the time Shield Bash stuns the enemy they will have already finished casting.

I compensate for the utter lack of stuns by popping my cooldowns constantly and hoping that by level 60, the healers have figured out how to compensate, too. Some of it is just not avoidable if nobody stuns because the arc is too wide and the cast time too fast.

[AriKitae]

A lot of what everyone else has said is great advice. Some melee DPS will request that you run through a mob's hitbox and back instead of strafing around the pack when dodging. Do not do this. Running through the hitbox will open you up to "backstab" hits from all of the mobs that aren't busy casting AoE.

Doing circles or half circles around the pack into safety and back to your start point following the AoE really isn't all that disruptive to directionals, and I find that it keeps the pack more grouped up, while the back and forth motion can cause the pack to be more disjointed. Plus you are opening yourself up to fewer flank and back hits this way.

[chidarake]

therpgfanatic

actually you can wait till the last moment to do your input for your next move, when you know you may need to stun soon this way you are able to stun instantly or press your next command and the gcd will cycle again and you will still be in the stun window if its needed.

your not holding back so don't miss any gcds just waiting till towards the end of the gcd to tell it what to do.

as for melee dps and stuns yes if they use them on the same target it can become stun immune but in large pulls if your a pld you can chain stun enemies all day as they can have 3 stuns each before being immune, but really melee need to use their stuns cus its an important part of their dps aswell as having utility.

[Falar]

Ahh, the endless debate.

I prefer to sit still and eat them, using cooldowns when necessary. They don't hit htat hard, I don't like the DPS and healer having to re-position, and I want them to stay in my Salted Earth. Some healers will bitch about this and think you're too dumb to move but depending on how they ask, I'll oblige them and start dodging them. It just doesn't feel "clean and orderly" to me if you are having to move so much as the tank against weak trash.

Its kind of tough being a tank, you can't please everyone. I even had a healer complain once that I was avoiding AoEs too much, after he asked me to avoid them. He said "hey, next time the healer posts up behind you that's a sign he doesn't want to move".

There are some AoEs that I ALWAYS move through, like the big ass cleaves from dragons or giants/colossi. They hit pretty hard and are easy enough to just barely sidestep or run forward enough to now be at their back.

Someone mentioned Neverreap--in that case, yes I am running around like a crazy man.

[chidarake]

those weak enemy aoes are usually so small that dodging them is really easy and doesnt make anyone move around so why wouldnt you dodge them.?

plus if enough of them line up either at the same time or in quick sequence it could catch the healer off guard with an unexpected amount of damage and so cause a wipe.

theres really no excuse not to dodge as either they are small and easy to dodge or large and more important to dodge.

[Jim_Berry]

I'll say this:

You putting less strain on the healer by not eating aoes goes a LONG way than a dps not hitting positionals on trash.

A NIN need to refresh Huton? He'll just have to do it with Armor Crush without doing it on the side. A DRG needs to refresh Blood of the Dragon while Wheeling Thrust is up? He'd better hit the attack from the rear while running out the aoe zone.

That tank that eats all aoes to save the dps' positionals? Good luck not getting complaints from the healer. Heck, even the dps will ask you why you're eating the aoes.

[Seku]

I'll say this:

You putting less strain on the healer by not eating aoes goes a LONG way than a dps not hitting positionals on trash.

A NIN need to refresh Huton? He'll just have to do it with Armor Crush without doing it on the side. A DRG needs to refresh Blood of the Dragon while Wheeling Thrust is up? He'd better hit the attack from the rear while running out the aoe zone.

That tank that eats all aoes to save the dps' positionals? Good luck not getting complaints from the healer. Heck, even the dps will ask you why you're eating the aoes.

Why are the dps doing positional on anything with 3 targets or more to begin with? They should be doing AoE in a majority of these situations and none (aoe abilities) come to mind that require positionals.