Question about tanking an aoes in endgame trash

[Zari]

Alright so I just have a little bit of a question about lv 60 tanking. I just started actually using a tank in lv 60 dungeons rather than one of my healers and dps and I have not had really any trouble with hate or mitigation, though I do wonder a bit about my movement.

It generally was not much of an issue pre-60 (except for a couple of dungeons) but I notice a lot of lv 60 dungeons have enemies that just send aoe after aoe at you. I dont worry much about this when I have no melee dps in the group but when there are, I worry that I might be handling aoes a bit wrong? I know i am supposed to dodge them and with bosses it is easy since you can just get back in position after the indicator disappears and you can usually do that in trash groups but what about when the melee dps is attacking an enemy that is not using the aoe? Is it considered annoying for the tank to be turning the enemy like that or is it only so when the tank is fidgety in general?

[Slappah]

It's something that can't be helped.

If a melee dps gets mad at you for moving just let them know you'd rather not take unavoidable damage for the sake of their l33t deepz

They should be throwing out some aoe anyway, and the only aoe that has a true "positional" I would think is ring of thorns on drg since to get its full potency, it needs to be combo'd off a heavy thrust that met it's flank positional. Decent goons will overcome the movement that comes with enemy aoe by, making sure that's enemy isn't going to move during that GCD, or stun them first with leg sweep or SSD to make sure they get the positional off.

It can be annoying, yes, but that's just how it works.

I typically move out of the aoe, then get back in the position I was originally in, and the dps usually realize this and just work around it, they know the mobs are going to be moved back into their original position within a GCD.

And yes I know dps technically have positional AoEs, but it's in the sense of "cone in front of you" or "line in front of you"

I mean positional as in my ring of thorns example.

No melee dps has an aoe that only gets its potency if used from the rear or flank or whatever.(besides ring of thorns obviously, but even that move doesn't have a positional, it just doesn't get its full potency unless combo'd off a positional)


TL;DR
Don't worry about it. Do your thing, just don't be moving unnecessarily.

Also, in the case of mass aoe, just do your best. If there's a LOT of enemies, it's going to be a cluster f no matter what simply due to the way enemies position themselves when surrounded by many other enemies. (Examples like pulling everything before the ziggy boss in antitower)

[MahoSenshi]

From a MNK perspective (since they have the most positionals):

If >= 3 mobs, DPS should be doing their AoE rotation, so move as you like... (BUT!!!) try to clump mobs closer together as possible. Many melee AoEs have line or really small circle zone, and too often tanks don't bother themselves with clumping.
Example:

M...M
...T...
M.....

This is bad, Rockbreaker on any of the mobs will not hit another two. Same for Howling Fist, Geirskogul etc.

If 2 or 1 mobs then sure, try not to do excess moving. Escaping from AoE is fine, especially if you move back right after red cone/circle fade. Less damage to the tank - more time for a healer (well, for a good healer at least) to DPS, so total group damage is bigger.

[Jpec07]

Basically...yeah, dodging enemy telegraphs can really suck for the melee DPS (and SMN/SCH who already used Shadow Flare). Generally when handling a pack of trash, I'll try to keep them bundled up and inside as many friendly AoEs as I can, but when your facing off against something like the second big trash pull in Neverreap, where you basically can't stop moving unless you want AoE for breakfast, this can be tough.

Generally, dodging AoE is more important than letting your melee DPS keep wailing--not to mention, seeing you run away might be helpful for them to realize that AoE is incoming.

[Ragology]

From the perspective of a DPS, I really don't like it when the tank standing in the center with mobs in front and behind them. They get spaced to far apart for my Aoe's to hit them all at once, and also too far apart for me to switch targets and interrupt a mobs attack with my stun. Also I'm not sure if block/parry/dodge trigger as often when things are poking you in the back, so it could be making things harder on the healers as well.

Also I don't like it when a tank becomes too tunnel visioned and decides to park a mob in front of some obstacle. Sometimes it s a wall that prevents me from getting behind an enemy. Other times its a pool of fire or something on the ground that I can't stand in without taking damage.

[Drakkaelus]

From the perspective of a DPS, I really don't like it when the tank standing in the center with mobs in front and behind them. They get spaced to far apart for my Aoe's to hit them all at once, and also too far apart for me to switch targets and interrupt a mobs attack with my stun. Also I'm not sure if block/parry/dodge trigger as often when things are poking you in the back, so it could be making things harder on the healers as well.

You can try to bunch the mobs up but sometimes they just refuse to get in one spot. There's a point where I just say, "to hell with it" and tank them where they are.

[Zari]

Thanks for the responses guys, I've played melee dps too and I havent had an issue with it really before (unless the tank is just moving around in general not just to dodge aoes). I was just wondering if, despite how it is for me, the general consensus was different. Glad to hear it is pretty much the same though~

[Februs]

I'm a bit late to the party, but there's really only 3 options when it comes to AoE positioning.

The first is soaking or mitigating the dmg. I don't recommend this one, but it's an option. Most mobs who use AoE's are roughly in sync with one another, kinda like women who live together. This means you can plan your defensive CD's accordingly to soak the dmg. You can also mitigate additional Dmg by saving your stuns for those AoE casts. Pld can do this most efficiently (though at the cost of the most enmity), but every tank can stun at least one AoE to reduce the incoming dmg. If you save a heavy defensive CD for the rest (ie: Sentinel, Shadow Wall, Vengeance), you can soak the rest of the dmg without giving your healer too many gray hairs. It's a good thing to keep in mind if you absolutely have to keep position for some reason (such as tight corners, avoiding premature pulls on the next set, environmental hazards, etc).

The second option is re-positioning, or what I like to call, "the circle jerk." This will never go flawlessly for you because mobs tend to push each other around when they're in tight groups, but you can dodge an AoE and immediately move back into position afterwards to keep the mob as stationary as possible. The plus side here is that it saves you some unnecessary mitigation. The downside is that enemies will wiggle around a little, and you'll lose personal position which can cost you ideal targeting, forcing you to land a strike on a different opponent or pop an extra Enmity AoE of your own to hold aggro.The amount of wiggling that the mobs do is typically determined by the size of the AoE you're dodging as well. More movement on your part means that you'll be dragging mobs around, and that can lead to a really bizarre circular movement around the group, especially if multiple big AoE's go out shortly after one another. Again, though, stuns and soaks can help reduce that movement. Use them wisely, but always be aware of your enmity and timing.

The last option is "the drag." This is best used in narrow hallways or long stretches of space. Position them in front of you, like normal, and drag them backwards to avoid AoE's. Instead of moving side to side to dodge the AoE's, you're moving steadily back. The mob will follow you, so they're still moving, but Dps will maintain positional bonuses because the mob is never actually turning. They're just slowly moving in a straight line. Keep in mind that this is best done in a slow and steady movement. Fast drags cause mobs to wiggle around a lot more as they push each other to try and catch up to you. you'll also run out of space a lot faster, so it's not recommended. Instead, you just want to slowly and easily back step out of their AoE, and then hold position until the next one. Stuns, again, come in handy here because they reduce the amount of back peddling you need to do. Locking target is another good option as it keeps your front to the enemy, especially on War since they also have to be aware of their flanks during Raw Intuition (just remember to disengage it after the back peddle is done, so that you're not locked onto the same target the whole time).

There are a few other small things that can help, but this is the meat and potatoes of it. Hope it helps.

[iAmScallywag]

The way I handle AOE things is to move out of the way of it during casting and then get back into the same spot. I try to move the least amount of space possible to get out of AOE range so as to not pull the mobs too far off spot so that when I move back it'll get them roughly back to the same spot. For cone AOEs there typically is a little sweetspot you can move forward into right in the pack of mobs were nothing is behind you attacking (meaning the auto attacks can still be blocked or parried), you're out of range for the AOE, and nothing moves out of it's spot and instead just turns with you so when you move back it still remains in that spot having never left. Now for fights were a lot of movement is required the only advice is to just try to do it the best you can. I don't think people will get very upset unless you're just all over the place.

[Fernosaur]

Another option is to save your stuns in mobpacks that you know have big burst AoE, like the big Constructs in Pharos HM or the Centaurs in Antitower. It's better with PLD because chainstuns, but it can really help the Melees. Most of the times they won't notice your stuns and won't move out of the way anyways, though :P