tanks not using cooldowns?

[Joe_Schmoe]

tanks not using cooldowns?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ooAwesomeToUse, but for cooldowns instead.

I'm exactly like this. I have to have complete faith and trust in my group (running duty finder is the like casting Hasty Touch, and if you're running with a pre-made add Steady Hand to that ) in order to use these, especially liberally. There's also the fact that I mad rushed to Heavensward, going in blind on all the dungeons/trials, so I have no idea if there are ideal places where CDs are best used. I definitely get that they should be used at the start of an encounter and not the end, it's the during and the afterwards that makes me skittish.

[Red_Wolf]

Sleep, bind and non-killshot knockback moves are counterproductive to killing mobs appropriately and should be avoided except in dire circumstances.

I get what you're saying. But you're ignoring the possibility that tanks and healers can struggle. Sleep is not counterproductive when 6 mobs are killing the tank and 5 mobs don't. That's when a DPS should step up and sleep someone instead of just whining and moaning and how bad the tank and healer are.

Yes, in a perfect world CC is never needed. If you group with fc mates or higher-level players, then congrats on ignoring CC. If your tank is the minimum level for the dungeon and is wearing a breastplate 10 levels below the dungeon then you might want to use it instead of lecturing about how your shouldn't need to...

[kobe-sabi]

I love tanking, it gets me in quick, plus it really easy to do. having all this extra Vit, makes dumb tanks think you can just spam heals to keep me top off. Having 24k to 32k hp doesn't make you harder to kill, cause every mob and boss hits harder in this patch. I also love healing, I think all tanks should heal, so they can see that spamming heals do nothing, but deplete mp quickly and gain unnecessary aggro from inexperience tanks.

[Erim-Nelhah]

...when you drop, and have no cooldowns left and die, it's your fault for wasting your cooldowns.

You just don't get it. If I pull a big enough group that it's tearing chunks outta me, I'm gonna pop Shadow Wall first, then Shadow Skin when that's about to expire (or if SW is unavailable), then other CDs if stuff isn't dead yet, regardless of what the healer's doing. By doing this, I will always live longer than you will in the same situation, also regardless of what the healer's doing. If I die despite using my CDs like that, it's either because I overpulled (oops), or because the healer wasn't doing his/her job. In the latter case, that's no excuse for me to not do mine. Something for you to consider.

--Erim Nelhah

[Alistaire]

I get what you're saying. But you're ignoring the possibility that tanks and healers can struggle. Sleep is not counterproductive when 6 mobs are killing the tank and 5 mobs don't. That's when a DPS should step up and sleep someone instead of just whining and moaning and how bad the tank and healer are.

Yes, in a perfect world CC is never needed. If you group with fc mates or higher-level players, then congrats on ignoring CC. If your tank is the minimum level for the dungeon and is wearing a breastplate 10 levels below the dungeon then you might want to use it instead of lecturing about how your shouldn't need to...

No, when you have to play a dungeon the same way as you would if the tank had dc'd the moral of the story isn't "CC is actually good".

[Anienai]

You just don't get it. If I pull a big enough group that it's tearing chunks outta me, I'm gonna pop Shadow Wall first, then Shadow Skin when that's about to expire (or if SW is unavailable), then other CDs if stuff isn't dead yet, regardless of what the healer's doing. By doing this, I will always live longer than you will in the same situation, also regardless of what the healer's doing. If I die despite using my CDs like that, it's either because I overpulled (oops), or because the healer wasn't doing his/her job. In the latter case, that's no excuse for me to not do mine. Something for you to consider.

--Erim Nelhah

Can you explain this to the ass-knight I had the pleasure of curing?

#Sirentank

[Yuni_Queen]

Can you explain this to the ass-knight I had the pleasure of curing?

I believe that's when Vote Kick can shine it's fabulous light.
There are three types of tanks:
1) I don't trust healers, I will use CDs >.>
2) I don't know what am i doing, i will pop shadow wall on 3 mob pull, so healer won't think i am noob :3
3) I AM INVINCIBLE WITH THIS POWER. SHADOW WALL? THERE IS NO PLACE ON MY HOTBARS FOR THIS SKILL.

Jokes on side, Erim made it just right. Sometimes healer is, rather than does, or pulls are badass. Cooldowns are not one-use-only, no need to hold back, use them all. I know all tanks want that.

[Red_Wolf]

No, when you have to play a dungeon the same way as you would if the tank had dc'd the moral of the story isn't "CC is actually good".

I'm not sure what the "No" is in response to. You lost me.

I was saying DPS should use CC when in a group with a struggling tank and healer. Do you really disagree with that? It's better to just watch them die? Is that productive or helpful in anyway? Don't you think it will help the tank and healer as they learn?

[Whiteroom]

I'm not sure what the "No" is in response to. You lost me.

I was saying DPS should use CC when in a group with a struggling tank and healer. Do you really disagree with that? It's better to just watch them die? Is that productive or helpful in anyway? Don't you think it will help the tank and healer as they learn?

I get that you want it to be that way, and it would be nice if it were. But it's not. If the tank needs CC on 6 adds, why did they pull that many. Well they probably pulled that many so people could kill them quick. In which case you will be doing AOE damage, which negates sleep anyway. The only time it's useful is when it is combined with something like Holy, where you are able to cleric stance longer because of the stuns, or say, final sting. Even if a pull is accidental it can be gotten through unless everyone is a derp, in which case they need to learn their rolls better, and prioritizing cc is likely beyond them anyway.

[Red_Wolf]

I get that you want it to be that way, and it would be nice if it were. But it's not. If the tank needs CC on 6 adds, why did they pull that many. Well they probably pulled that many so people could kill them quick. In which case you will be doing AOE damage, which negates sleep anyway. The only time it's useful is when it is combined with something like Holy, where you are able to cleric stance longer because of the stuns, or say, final sting. Even if a pull is accidental it can be gotten through unless everyone is a derp, in which case they need to learn their rolls better, and prioritizing cc is likely beyond them anyway.

Obviously you wouldn't try to keep a creature mezzed while spamming aoe on them. You mez the creature and the tank pulls the others away. It is that way... That's pretty much the whole point of having CC in the game. Yes, the tank and other DPS have to be smart enough to avoid that creature for a while. I've done it plenty of times in groups. I've also knocked-back creatures back into the pack when they wander off.

I just don't understand the arguments here. If the choice is between watching the tank die a 100 times in a dungeon or using CC. Then you should try to use CC... unless the tank is complete moron who is unwilling to change or survive. Then you boot him.