tanks not using cooldowns?

[jmanfrw]

I've had way too many deaths where I didn't watch a single heal get cast at all. I need my cooldowns for those idiotic periods, with a healer like that, my cooldowns are wasted during the time they actually know where their heal buttons are.

Tanks like you die a lot more than you have to for a few reasons.

1 you aren't using Cd's effectively and so it's harder to heal/ catches us off guard (I should be able to hop in cleric stance after regen + e4e for at least 5 seconds)

2 We get super bored just babysitting you and get distracted because we aren't kept busy stance dancing (you're essentially asking us to sit there and hit one button every 5-20 seconds for 20-40 minutes.)

Basically your behavior is causing you to see the worse in healers causing a vicious cycle where we perform poorly or in untrustworthy ways (letting your hp drop so you actually use your so called "emergency" cooldowns) which only fosters your distrust of healers.

[rockint]

Basically your behavior is causing you to see the worse in healers causing a vicious cycle where we perform poorly or in untrustworthy ways (letting your hp drop so you actually use your so called "emergency" cooldowns) which only fosters your distrust of healers.

OR, it's hard to catch up because the healer hasn't cast a single heal the entire pull because OMGIGOTTADPS. Healers like that are why so many tanks use their cooldowns REACTIVELY.

Tanks are NOT 100% self-sufficient on our cooldowns, we need to be healed. Even with that damage reduction from Vengeance, I'm still going to die if you don't do your job and actually cast heals on me.

Do your job, and make the groups survival your #1 prioirty, and you'll see more tanks use cooldowns so you can DPS rather than use cooldowns because of mechanics.

When something is going to hit me for 70% of my HP, sorry, my cooldowns are being saved for that hit, not your sad DPS.

[Jpec07]

OR, it's hard to catch up because the healer hasn't cast a single heal the entire pull because OMGIGOTTADPS. Healers like that are why so many tanks use their cooldowns REACTIVELY.

Tanks are NOT 100% self-sufficient on our cooldowns, we need to be healed. Even with that damage reduction from Vengeance, I'm still going to die if you don't do your job and actually cast heals on me.

Do your job, and make the groups survival your #1 prioirty, and you'll see more tanks use cooldowns so you can DPS rather than use cooldowns because of mechanics.

When something is going to hit me for 70% of my HP, sorry, my cooldowns are being saved for that hit, not your sad DPS.

I think we're all on the same page here:

• Healers who don't drop Cleric Stance to heal when it is clearly needed are not performing adequately in their role.
• A healer's primary role is keeping everyone alive. If they can do that and have time to spare (say, if Regen/Medica II is keeping everyone topped off), they can jump into Cleric Stance and throw out some DoTs, and maybe Holy/Stone II/III, if they've got plenty of room.
• If a healer is DPSing while the group is dying, they are not performing adequately in their jobs.
• All the cooldowns in the world (except maybe Hallowed Ground) are not going to enable a healer to not heal the tank/group.
• Tanks who blow all their CDs during periods of low damage are not performing optimally.
• Big cooldowns should be saved for big damage.

I think the disconnect is in people's assumptions, and the things people aren't saying. I doubt rockint would advocate not using smaller cooldowns at the start of a pull; they just seem disgruntled at the attitude where healers expect to be able to DPS and get upset when they can't. Cooldowns make the healer's job easier, which is really why tanks exist at all (it focuses the incoming damage on one point to give them somewhere to focus their energy), but healers should still be healing primarily (unless they're a Scholar in pre-30 content. Then the fairy does literally everything).

[Red_Wolf]

etc...

The other thing that's often forgotten is something called "crowd control". For whatever reason DPS doesn't feel required to learn or use it. Tanks and Healers will get blamed all night long but often a simple root can fix a lot of these issues.

[Alistaire]

The other thing that's often forgotten is something called "crowd control". For whatever reason DPS doesn't feel required to learn or use it. Tanks and Healers will get blamed all night long but often a simple root can fix a lot of these issues.

The only crowd control that's worth even mentioning on this topic are stuns. The only case I can remotely think of where they're not being used appropriately are ninjas that go in viper stance for trash pulls. Which they shouldn't. But even that's a relatively minor issue. Holy is the best significant crowd control that should be used in dungeons, and even that has a time that it shouldn't be used (blood price). Sleep, bind and non-killshot knockback moves are counterproductive to killing mobs appropriately and should be avoided except in dire circumstances.

[Red_Wolf]

Sleep, bind and non-killshot knockback moves are counterproductive to killing mobs appropriately and should be avoided except in dire circumstances.

I get what you're saying. But you're ignoring the possibility that tanks and healers can struggle. Sleep is not counterproductive when 6 mobs are killing the tank and 5 mobs don't. That's when a DPS should step up and sleep someone instead of just whining and moaning and how bad the tank and healer are.

Yes, in a perfect world CC is never needed. If you group with fc mates or higher-level players, then congrats on ignoring CC. If your tank is the minimum level for the dungeon and is wearing a breastplate 10 levels below the dungeon then you might want to use it instead of lecturing about how your shouldn't need to...

[Alistaire]

I get what you're saying. But you're ignoring the possibility that tanks and healers can struggle. Sleep is not counterproductive when 6 mobs are killing the tank and 5 mobs don't. That's when a DPS should step up and sleep someone instead of just whining and moaning and how bad the tank and healer are.

Yes, in a perfect world CC is never needed. If you group with fc mates or higher-level players, then congrats on ignoring CC. If your tank is the minimum level for the dungeon and is wearing a breastplate 10 levels below the dungeon then you might want to use it instead of lecturing about how your shouldn't need to...

No, when you have to play a dungeon the same way as you would if the tank had dc'd the moral of the story isn't "CC is actually good".

[jmanfrw]

OR, it's hard to catch up because the healer hasn't cast a single heal the entire pull because OMGIGOTTADPS. Healers like that are why so many tanks use their cooldowns REACTIVELY.

I'll say this that since I main Healer I rarely work with other healers because as a WHM I am main heals in raids.

But while my tank classes are still only getting the 40's (leveling in sync so they can share gear) I trust my healers and cycle my cool-downs as best I can (which could be better but...) and cannot remember a time when I ran into a healer not healing me. Healers generally, I repeat generally know how low a tank can get in a particular dungeon and if we don't we over-heal until we do. Yeah it's scary to see my hp drop but I know as a healer that we have all of our instant heals in mind [a lot are free ]

[jmanfrw]

Do your job, and make the groups survival your #1 prioirty, and you'll see more tanks use cooldowns so you can DPS rather than use cooldowns because of mechanics.

When something is going to hit me for 70% of my HP, sorry, my cooldowns are being saved for that hit, not your sad DPS.

1 yes my job is to keep you alive, yours is to help me while the dps kill stuff

2 yeah... we know when that hit is coming too and that is when we save insta cast heals/ stoneskin if we can squeeze it in there, but guess what.. it wont eat 70% of your hp if you use a cd and it's ok to save one for that moment; but the cd for you abilities isn't 80% of the dungeon run time so in the meantime use them.

I'm done, now I've ranted but I don't feel like you'll listen to your teammates and play well and constructively. I suck at tank and I know that but I try which is more than you are doing atm.

not using 1/2 your abilities=not even trying

[Gameplayzero]

extreme

you must have some pretty bad luck. In all my years playing this game have I never CONSTANTLY had healers who didn't heal and just kept dpsing. Maybe healers who turned on cleric at a bad time/accident (including myself at least once), but never as bad as you make it sound.

If a healer is dpsing try to make their lives easier by using a cooldown depending on pull size. Unless you want the run to go slower (especially with bad dps players). Why punish the healers who are doing your job just because of some post traumatic stress? Maybe besides the lvl 60 roulettes, healer dps is a rarity. I typically never see healers dps unless they are overgeared scholars for low lvl'd content.