tanks not using cooldowns?

[Kazumac]

Or... You can just heal... My cooldowns are for when you go stupid and I'm getting dangerously low on HP and you're still DPSing the mob instead of doing your job and healing me. If this game wasn't so obsessed with the DPS that tanks and healers do, then we'd be more willing to cycle our cooldowns to make your job easier. But the problem is that half the healers don't heal. My cooldowns are for emergencies / HUGE hits from bosses, not so that you can dps an add. Sorry, bad healers ruined it for everyone.

Not using damage reduction cooldowns regularly is probably why shit hits the fan when you tank. They are not reactive skills, they are proactive. Hallowed, holmgang, living dead are your, I'm about to die and need to buy time CDs and even those can be used proactively. There are no tank busters in our current 4 man dungeons you need to save cooldowns for. Popping sentinel or vengeance when you are at 20% health isn't as useful as using it when starting a large multi mob pull.

[rockint]

Not using damage reduction cooldowns regularly is probably why shit hits the fan when you tank.

No, it's typically because "Sorry, I was in cleric stance."

Or literally not a single heal being cast because the healer is trying to win the DPS meters.

Your job as a healer is to keep everyone's HP high enough that they're not going to die. When your tank dies because you were DPSing, you're filling the wrong role, period. End of story.

In 4 mans, using vengeance at 98% HP while I'm getting healed and using vengeance at 10% HP while the healer is casting stone are WORLDS different. If you can't see why, you're a bad tank. Keeping cooldowns up with my usual healer, though, is different. Parry cooldowns can also stack with avoidance. At 10% HP, any self heals are WAY more important than they are at 90%.

Cooldowns aren't something you use "just because" they're for survival with bad healers, not so bad healers can win on dps.

[Kazumac]

No, it's typically because "Sorry, I was in cleric stance."

No it just means there were two people playing poorly, you and the healer. Just because they failed at their job doesn't mean you have to as well. Also popping vengeance at 10% is a stupid idea, why wouldn't you pop it earlier? If you have 2k left it's likely 1-2 trash mob hits to kill you with or without vengeance. Maybe the 30% slower damage intake going from 90-10% will give the healer time to react. Or maybe it won't but just because the healer failed at their job, doesn't mean you should too. Seriously.

[Whiteroom]

No, it's typically because "Sorry, I was in cleric stance."

Or literally not a single heal being cast because the healer is trying to win the DPS meters.

Your job as a healer is to keep everyone's HP high enough that they're not going to die. When your tank dies because you were DPSing, you're filling the wrong role, period. End of story.

In 4 mans, using vengeance at 98% HP while I'm getting healed and using vengeance at 10% HP while the healer is casting stone are WORLDS different. If you can't see why, you're a bad tank. Keeping cooldowns up with my usual healer, though, is different. Parry cooldowns can also stack with avoidance. At 10% HP, any self heals are WAY more important than they are at 90%.

Cooldowns aren't something you use "just because" they're for survival with bad healers, not so bad healers can win on dps.

If you die while not using cooldowns, maybe it is you who are filling the wrong role.

They aren't for survival with "bad healers", they are what separates a meh tank from a good tank. You're way of thinking here is probably what gets you into trouble. Without using cooldowns properly, you can never be more than a mediocre dungeon tank.

Also it is not the healers job to keep everyone at high hp, it is everyone's job. As a tank you use cooldowns, dodge, keep aggro, and do the mechanics to assist with this.

[Adire]

In 4 mans, using vengeance at 98% HP while I'm getting healed and using vengeance at 10% HP while the healer is casting stone are WORLDS different.

If you're saving Vengeance for when you're at 10% HP, you've waited far too long to even use it effectively. If your healer is in the process of casting a DPS spell and you pop Vengeance at 10% in the middle of a large pull, you're going to die most likely unless they have an instant cast ready to go immediately after, and you still may die.

If you had popped it sooner, it would have slowed damage down enough to actually give the healer more time to react and more time to DPS at the same time.

10% with a still DPSing healer is far more into Holmgang territory than Vengeance territory. You seeming to not understand this says a lot about your understanding of how cooldowns should work.

Vengeance and damage reduction skills like it and such are not for emergencies for healer mistakes, they're for preparing for high incoming damage or lessening damage to make more room for healer DPS. They're a proactive defense much like Galvanize is for SCH, not a reactive emergency button like Lustrate or Benediction are for healers and how Holmgang, Living Dead, and Hallowed Ground would be for tanks in regards to trash pulls (though given, Hallowed Ground technically can be used as a means to allow for more healer DPS)

If you use skills like Vengeance in this way in this situation you described, you are using them very ineffectively and pretty much guarantee your death at worst, and inefficiency at best. It's too late for them to be of much benefit since the next wave of damage will still kill you without assistance, and the healer will still have to spam heal you all the way back up and kill Vengeance time instead of being able to continue DPSing more with all the damage mitigated by a full length Vengeance.

[Tanathya]

Your job as a healer is to keep everyone's HP high enough that they're not going to die. When your tank dies because you were DPSing, you're filling the wrong role, period. End of story.

Stop telling the rest of the people's jobs when you can't do yours, which is to mitigate damage. You're bad, terrible, and I'm glad I never crossed paths with you, because you're doing it on purpose. You're so wrong on so many levels I can't even.

How in the world can you call someone else bad when you're at fault? I mean, even with a bad healer you're at fault to begin with, since their job is to heal the damage you've taken, and you're taking more damage than you should by not using CDs, so it all starts with you. If you're not mitigating damage to the best of your capabilities, you're not tanking, you're just holding hate, which I can do with literally any job in this game.

Edit: inb4 someone jumps and calls me an elitist, read the bold part.

[Jamillion]

Stop telling the rest of the people's jobs when you can't do yours, which is to mitigate damage. You're bad, terrible, and I'm glad I never crossed paths with you, because you're doing it on purpose. You're so wrong on so many levels I can't even.

How in the world can you call someone else bad when you're at fault? I mean, even with a bad healer you're at fault to begin with, since their job is to heal the damage you've taken, and you're taking more damage than you should by not using CDs, so it all starts with you. If you're not mitigating damage to the best of your capabilities, you're not tanking, you're just holding hate, which I can do with literally any job in this game.

Edit: inb4 someone jumps and calls me an elitist, read the bold part.

Well, I'm glad you said it and not me, I'd be likely to get myself banned again. But yeah, that's some top-notch scrub play only using cooldowns at 10%

[Tanathya]

Well, I'm glad you said it and not me, I'd be likely to get myself banned again. But yeah, that's some top-notch scrub play only using cooldowns at 10%

I'm only calling them out because they're calling everyone else bad, and they're rude especially when everyone else is telling them they're wrong. Otherwise it would have been a calm exchange of ideas. So if I'm banned, even though I didn't call anyone names (unless calling someone bad, or terrible qualifies as such), I hope they get penalized as well for doing the exact same thing.

[Jamillion]

I'm only calling them out because they're calling everyone else bad, and they're rude especially when everyone else is telling them they're wrong. Otherwise it would have been a calm exchange of ideas. So if I'm banned, even though I didn't call anyone names (unless calling someone bad, or terrible qualifies as such), I hope they get penalized as well for doing the exact same thing.

Nah, you won't get banned, I would have though, I can't stand such indignant incompetence.