Learning How To Be A Ninja

[Malicewolf]

I did 1 round of testing. Not 1 round of results only. I already stated I did not place up DE, nor is my NIN optimized. I have not upgraded it at all since the new update as it is not my main, so it is still ilvl 202 (well bought a few 220 HQ, but nor using my Lore or going crazy on upgrades).

It was simply to see the numerical results. The stack of dmg from DE will up the same in dmg%. I do not parse, so these are purely visual results as ticks don't show in battle log (the rest taken from battle log), which means I have to do it piece by piece (meaning I spent an hour testing). Would you like me to spam you with my full results from my excel? I only ran through all of it about a dozen times while recording the results. I went with the one with zero critical's (aside from ticks... never had one without the ticks of mut and SF providing at least 1 crit) in it simply to show the results in the most basic of it's form. I will admit, many of them I threw out because I looked away at a bad moment and missed the tick of dmg from a mut or shadowfang (meaning i'd only have 5 ticks of dmg from a SF or 9 from a Mut).

Simply put, I was testing the data to confirm numbers. Simple as that. Feel free to put up your parse numbers if you want. I have zero issues with accepting I am wrong if I see the evidence of such. The potency for your rotation is about 100 more than my rotation. I do not doubt that. I can see that. The testing was actually to see if I was able to crit with AE if I'd have a higher dmg output, as I was going to say increasing my chances to get a crit AE by getting an additional one in may be worth it.

Potency is one thing, but if the added potency of 440 is based on a small number (40 each tick) I was curious if the vulnerability of 10% would actually be more useful than a high dmging potency of 360 in 1 go.

My Crit AE's were around 2300
If you add in the 10% vul, that's 230 increase.

Because in actuality, the 10% is increasing the potency of each tick by 4 on SF and 3 on Mut (10% of 40 is 4, 10% of 30 is 3).

That is why I was curious to test out the numbers. If we're using just potency numbers, then 10% of 360 (in 1 go) is 36.

Based on fact that there's 6 ticks in SF and 10 in Mut, I wanted to see if the crit of AE would outproduce (as from my knowledge, there is no formula for potency increase based on crit hits). As I said though, looking at the results overall, i found different results than I was expecting.

Please continue being jerks about it, or simply show me some data. I don't respond to "i say because she said" well. Show me something, don't "tell" me something. I have zero issues being wrong about this matter, I simply want to know it for myself. Not depend on someone else's word for it.

EDIT: just saw your edit to your previous post.

To the venoms argument - yes, it's not necessary. Nor is it hard... please try for yourself. I do it easily with zero interruptions to my rotation. Granted, I main a PLD and stance dancing with that is an enormous pain in the butt, so perhaps it's simply because of that perspective.

I am using VA as an argument simply because it is common raid and it happens a LOT in there. Yes, you are right, it's not just NIN's, but if there's a DRG, MNK and NIN, then guess what happens if all 3 decide to maximize their DPS and the NIN has wasp on? I can't stun. Does it cause raid wide wipes? No. Is it annoying? Yes! How do we stop it? Knowledge. I did have a run however where 2 hounds in VA got their howls off and the 2 groups were a little too close. Healers and DPS for 2 groups all died. Tanks and last alliance that didn't get hit by it were standing. It's not common, but it can happen and it's super annoying. Especially when I as a tank get blamed for failing a mechanic because a DPS wanted that bit of extra dmg. DRG and monks can only hold off the attack. NIN's can actually avoid it if they are just a little cognizant.

With Mug, I said it to begin with. It's not substantial, but it can help. If you've never been a sliver away from dying before, than good for you (seriously). I have been many times though. Within 100's of being on the ground. That mug may have been the difference of being on the ground and not. Second wind is fantastic, no doubt about it, but it's a 120 second CD. If you used it prior or even at a bad time, or god forbid, by accidentally clicking the wrong thing, mug is another option. I'm not saying to hold onto it and not DPS. But it's not hard to see it's about to be off of CD and take 1 inbetween rotation click to switch venom if you aren't fully topped off in hp. Simply put, it's not hard to do. It's not necessary either. But I don't like wasting if it's there. Simple as that. If it takes too much effort for you to do, then don't. For me, it's not even an after thought in comparison to trying to time my shield oath to sword oath without losing too much time. The last update helped a lot in that it no longer interrupts my rotations, but it's still on GCD.

And you are correct, my full MUT and SF do not extend through the time TA goes off. However, part of both do They are still doing dmg in that time frame, even if not taking benefit of the vuln. I always keep both up on bosses and ensure I have it running through while I use my TA (once again because prior, I was under the impression it was not snapshot based. I do understand my thinking was incorrect here).

Most likely, cut off half from both (probably less, but I'm just going to round here). That'll take my total to 9168 compared to your rotation of 9495.

With that being the case, I will fully say, yes, I can agree that you produce higher numbers with that (though, I will still test later to see exactly how many ticks of MUT and SF get cut off before I set off TA out of curiosity, especially since it is still fairly close in #). I did indeed forget that not all of my MUT and SF would go through in the same time frame, so my mistake there.

I understand you guys are main NINs. I am fine with you having more knowledge than me in these things, but I will still put up my arguments. Please shut me down with your info, I am fine with that. Your responses are perfectly fine to me Xenon, you have provided numbers for validation. As I said, my testing was really to see if Crit AE was worth the chance, but then due to my error in the timing, I saw results that I found interesting and posted them.

As for the crit hit AE, it would outproduce the standard rotation if it had no crit AE (remember, I was looking to see if the extra chance for AE to crit might be worth it). With my numbers, my crit was for on avg, 2300 dmg. It's a chance and it will by no means always outproduce. For maximizing, yes, the rotation you guys put down will produce on avg higher results. But the potency difference isn't huge. A NIN stacked in crit, with crit food and utilizing IR could produce better with double AE's. Another note, I did not use IR, B4B or anything aside from having huton up in my testing. Visually watching and writing everything down was enough of a hassle without all the extra procs.