Repair NPCs in Dungeons

[Eidolon]

Something like that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I guess I didn't realize I had to defend either my joke or my opinion, so keep on being prickly #twelvespeed

I don't feel you do, but if you go out of your way to make a dismissive statement + joke that tries to tell one side that they are being unrealistic, I do believe you should expect to be countered. However, if I made you feel assaulted or cornered at all, you do have my appologies for that. My only line with you is when you resort to insults after, and perhaps it would be wise to reflect on that in the future. Just my personal thoughts on it.

[ArikDimas]

One thing I noticed following this thread, both sides of the argument have been rude/insulting during it, but usually it seems like the people for op's idea have been worse about it, and have been the ones calling the other side of the argument out on being rude.

Personally though, I don't care much for this idea\ since even some floors of Midas can be cleared when a tank looses their right side gear. Although I don't think it's reasonable for most dungeons to have a repair npc inside, I can agree with a lot of the ideas of having something outside, or a better warning

[Jijifli]

Pros to putting this npc: The incredibly blind don't get punished for not repairing in 20 runs.

Cons to putting this npc: Loss of DoH perk. Story breaking. Really obviously not normally meant to be there. requires just as much walking as a normal npc before the dungeon does, making them honestly worthless. Promotes laziness. Promotes not checking gear. Promotes more DoH killing ideas in the future.

As you can see, way more cons than pros. Don't put it in. This is coming from someone that doesn't have grade 6 matter and doesn't have any crafters to 50 besides weaver (Paid for, I'm one of the lazy.) Let DoH keep their perks before people demand their newest gear comes free because they don't want to level DoH or pay for it.

[Eidolon]

Pros to putting this npc: The incredibly blind don't get punished for not repairing in 20 runs.

Cons to putting this npc: Loss of DoH perk. Story breaking. Really obviously not normally meant to be there. requires just as much walking as a normal npc before the dungeon does, making them honestly worthless. Promotes laziness. Promotes not checking gear. Promotes more DoH killing ideas in the future.

As you can see, way more cons than pros. Don't put it in. This is coming from someone that doesn't have grade 6 matter and doesn't have any crafters to 50 besides weaver (Paid for, I'm one of the lazy.) Let DoH keep their perks before people demand their newest gear comes free because they don't want to level DoH or pay for it.

Oh yes, way more con's when you're incredibly bias. LEt's take a look at a more objective view.



"Loss of DoH Perk" is completrely inaccurate, take that one out. It's not a loss to their perk. They still get the perk of being able to do it anywhere, cheaper, at any time (Even in combat), and at a higher percentage than those without..


"Story Breaking" as I already pointed out, this isn't the case at all. There's plenty of cases where it could make plenty of sense. Using NPC's, it can be used to build lore, rather than take away from it.

"Requires as much walking as to a normal NPC", except for the fact that it's very possible to be out in the field questing when you get your duty pop. Or it might just be that you die too much in a duty (It happens, some of us don't give up on two deaths), or it might just be that you entered at 11% and didn't check. Happens when you're doing questing every day.

"Promotes Lazyness" I can counter this by saying that not adding it promotes underperforming if your gear breaks and you're performing at 50% of your potential.

"Promotes not checking gear" Probably the only point that holds weight, though it's moreso about giving a contingency in the case that someone forgets.

"Promotes more DoH killing ideas in the future" is just a simple slippery sloap arguement. I could argue that it promotes better QoL improvements in the future.

[VitaminMT]

Sell "Grade x Repair Kits" from NPCs at three times the cost of dark matter. They can repair any piece of gear anywhere, even if you do not have the job leveled to repair that equipment, and cannot overrepair like dark matter can.

All you'd need then is a bit of personal responsibility.

[Jijifli]

Oh yes, way more con's when you're incredibly bias. LEt's take a look at a more objective view.



"Loss of DoH Perk" is completrely inaccurate, take that one out. It's not a loss to their perk. They still get the perk of being able to do it anywhere, cheaper, at any time (Even in combat), and at a higher percentage than those without..


"Story Breaking" as I already pointed out, this isn't the case at all. There's plenty of cases where it could make plenty of sense. Using NPC's, it can be used to build lore, rather than take away from it.

"Requires as much walking as to a normal NPC", except for the fact that it's very possible to be out in the field questing when you get your duty pop. Or it might just be that you die too much in a duty (It happens, some of us don't give up on two deaths), or it might just be that you entered at 11% and didn't check. Happens when you're doing questing every day.

"Promotes Lazyness" I can counter this by saying that not adding it promotes underperforming if your gear breaks and you're performing at 50% of your potential.

"Promotes not checking gear" Probably the only point that holds weight, though it's moreso about giving a contingency in the case that someone forgets.

"Promotes more DoH killing ideas in the future" is just a simple slippery sloap arguement. I could argue that it promotes better QoL improvements in the future.

Okay, let's go down the list.

Anyone will be able to repair anywhere with this. Your gear broke out in the world? Queue solo into a dungeon, repair, leave. Not even a penalty. And they can't hide it behind monsters, because not only will people just do lower ones, but then you'll get the, "Why over there my gear was 0% on entry" requests. Therefor, perk removed. Not only that, it's cheap to repair anyways. The only perk that stays is over 100%, but even then why have it up so high if you can just repair at any time by just using DF?

If you want to tell me why that guard is standing there to repair your gear completely randomly in the dungeon instead of helping you out doesn't raise any eyebrows, I'd love to hear it.

Two deaths barely hits your gear. If you're doing from fully repaired to broken in 2 deaths, I want to know what you're doing because clearly it's not the deaths. I don't have DoH to repair. I can take 20+ deaths without breaking my accessories, forget armor.

If you're going to say that underperforming if not is the reason, then they weren't going to perform up anyways. Obviously, they can't just press a key to see their equipment.

My point of gear checking is I've had people go in with gear not knowing they had certain things on (Like a roleplay set.) It just slows things down. Hell, even I managed to go in with Ilvl 90 daggers instead of 210 on NIN on expert and nobody even noticed until we ended because stuff still died super fast.

How does it promote QoL? "Oh now anyone can repair anywhere now lol." There are people saying we shouldn't need DoH for any melding. I've even seen people claim we shouldn't need someone to craft the new gear to get it, and that we should just be rewarded it. With every single thing you remove that DoH has as a good advantage, it becomes less popular. In fact, this will promote more perks being removed. If this passed and the melding didn't, then there'd be complaints until it happened. Then if that passed, why do we have to have them craft it? Before you know it, DoH is a joke in every way.

But if you REALLY want me to put more cons, then here. Horrible groups don't break after someone never repaired. gear will be fixed, so they could put effort (unlikely) to doing what they need to do correctly. You won't need to level DoH to repair items.

And repeat on this con. It hurts DoH. There is no but on it. It. Hurts. DoH.

I think I'm just going to call it.

I have yet to see a convincing reason for why we shouldn't have this. All I'm getting is "you're just lazy", it would break the lore (despite there being far more ludicrous things already in the game), and it would break crafting, repeated over and over again, and people being patronizing. I'm only getting more and more annoyed, it's clear the forums will have none of this suggestion (can't say I'm surprised), so I don't see a reason for me to continue posting in this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, when lore is used as a reason to deprive players of harmless convenience, lore may have a problem. And I'm not convinced the lore actually forbids merchants being in dungeons, especially with some of the other things going on in this game. It was not uncommon to see merchants even in real life travel to dangerous areas with armed guards in order to make a profit, so I can't buy this lore reason.

When crafting is only viable because it doesn't have to suffer from a COMBAT detriment that COMBAT players have to suffer, crafting may have a problem.

We will never agree apparently, so I will take my leave from this "discussion" and refrain from suggesting anything on these forums in the future.

Maybe those points keep being thrown at you because they're legit problems? You should be able to keep an eye on your gear as someone that does COMBAT as your preferred way. The point is that combat players and DoH players work together. You can supply the items, and they can make it. They can repair it. They can fix it and make you stronger. Why should they lose benefit because you don't want to literally press the c key to see your gear is breaking and that maybe you should go talk to a repair guy.

If you're damaging full to queue pop, you're doing something wrong. So wrong in fact, that I think you wouldn't be much help in the dungeon anyways.

[KenjiChan]

So let me get this straight: you want an NPC... to repair your gear... So it doesn't break... Despite being very easy to check outside a dungeon and only costs pocket change?

[Suirieko]

This request isn't "quality of life", this is just quality of entitlement and laziness. It doesn't matter how much you spin it, it really is.

If you can't take the few seconds to check the gear before you go in dungeons, then you deserved to be screwed over. It's simple as that.

And no, "human mistake" is not an excuse. Obviously this game is very unforgiving against "human mistakes", especially in extreme trials and raids.

If you got screwed and your weapon breaks because you forgot to repair, and you have to leave just to repair then I'm sorry but sucks to be you. Let that be a lesson to check your gears more often so you don't get into that awkward position again.


Or let that be a motivator to level your crafts up to level 50 so you can repair every gears. Doing so, you will be able to repair anytime, anywhere, so long as you have the dark matters.


Edit:

One suggestion that I saw in this thread, that I WILL Welcome, is the ability to repair other player's gears. We had this in 1.0. In 1.0, we used to able to setup flags for repair request and offer tips for repair. As long as we had dark matter on hand (and gil) any crafters could repair your stuff without you having to do anything.

This was awesome to have in 1.0, and would be a better way to "solve this problem". Especially since we can repair gears without having to change class.

[Adire]

....

Just like not liking waiting for buffs to reset on wipe is laziness and entitlement right?

And again. People forget. . Deserving to be screwed over because I forget is like saying a blind person deserves to be hit by a car because they didn't see it. That goes for you too, bald guy picture person. Selectively picking out what people say.

And no. It doesn't just suck to be me. If I happen to be the tank or healer particularly, it sucks to be anyone in the entire group.

But you go on believing if it doesn't affect you personally, it must not be an issue for anyone and worth doing anything about.

Hopefully one day I'll forget to repair and end up tanking for you, or someone else will, when you don't have a replacement to call in.

[Suirieko]

Just like not liking waiting for buffs to reset on wipe is laziness and entitlement right?

Irrelevant. That is an understandable request, and I would support it.

And again. People forget. . Deserving to be screwed over because I forget is like saying a blind person deserves to be hit by a car because they didn't see it.

I edited the post to factor in "people forget" I'll just reply to you directly since you posted afterwards.

Human errors, human mistakes, and "people forget" are not excuses. This game is very unforgiving against human mistakes. Have you even done any extreme trials? Alexander savage? Bahamut coils? If you make any mistakes there, it costs you and the whole party. Why should this be any different? even in regular dungeons, if one person make enough mistakes, it screws everyone over.

Comparing "Blind person deserves to be hit by a car" is like comparing apples to oranges. That doesn't even work. That doesn't even make sense to compare.

Blind people can't help themselves to be blind, no one's going to hold them at fault for something that they can't help. Blind is a disability, failure to repair your gears, however, is not.

You can, however, can help yourself to check to make sure that your gears are repaired before you go in.

And no. It doesn't just suck to be me. If I happen to be the tank or healer particularly, it sucks to be anyone in the entire group.

Actually, it does suck to the entire group, and guess who's fault is that? The very person that failed to check or repair their gears before they got in. Hell even my FC ask EVERYONE, regularly, to check the gears before we do any raids. That's common sense.