Bard in the party... thoughts?

[RiceisNice]

@RiceisNice

Stop looking at A5S please, A5S is easy and doesn't necessarily favors any class, look at the next 3 floors.
Just like said previously more bards cleared A5S... dropping to so low, MCH have twice more clears in the next 3 floors.
Also, don't just look at top 1 but at top 10.

Even if you look at top 10 or the other floors, the same context still applies. The only thing I can agree and that is shown with fflogs is that there are less BRDs that have cleared A7s than there are MCH, but that by itself doesn't mean a whole lot in the job's actual performance.

I totally agree with Riceis, BRD and MCH are pretty close, but MCH is great with 2 meles comp and Midas's encounters are pretty good for MCH. No one can say "MCH is better than BRD"...that is not rigth.

The wild factor for foe's effectiveness has always been the healers and how much damage they can contribute, doubly so with the higher accuracy requirements and RoD. When hypercharge was at 5%, it didn't really hold much of a candle to foe even if it did technically affect "more" of the party, because both the uptime and potency was lower than what foe to bring, and factoring in healer dps would completely dwarf it at that point (esp in a raid tier where dps check was king). On the other hand, the "wild factor" for hypercharge is tank dps, and this is also when they adjusted str/vitality with tanks that their overall effective damage is a bit lower than what it was before; it's not necessarily clear cut just by looking at the values of the debuffs.

Fights favoring one class or another has always been a thing, and that's exactly why direct balance changes shouldn't be made unless it's huge and not exclusive to the encounter in mind. I'd expect (or at least hope) that MCHs wouldn't cry foul over a mechanic that requires cleansing a debuff or spot healing is required, in which case paeon/second wind would be incredibly helpful. I digress though, this is mostly a meta thing with group compositions, but in the end it doesn't make or break anything significantly unless you're that concerned with world firsts.

[Rowyne]

Wonderes Minuet ruins the whole point of being a Bard.... it's like playing with a complete new character. Damage might of improved but Bard is not about sitting with a casting bar.

I'm just very disappointed with what they are trying to do with bard.

I can get used to it but might as well play with something else. Which is a shame cause I was having a right good time Barding until Wonderes minuet was introduced.

Wanderer's Minuet ruined Bard for a lot of people.

2.0 Bard is dead, 3.0 bard is some undead abomination thing. The job is completely unfocused on what it's doing and is no longer unique in any respect other than it uses the visual of a bow. It doesn't need a buff, it needs to go back to alpha and be completely reworked from the ground up.

^This. Please please please fix Bard, SE. Bard has been such a complete mess since Heavensward. You can tell that MCH was designed to be a certain way from the ground up, then they got to Bard and got lazy and had no idea what to do other than shoehorn Gauss Barrel-- uh, I mean, Wanderer's Minuet into it. Why are our two ranged physical DPS classes just clunky carbon copies of each other? No other similar classes are like this. SMN and BLM are completely different. The three healing classes are completely different. The three tanking classes are completely different. The melee classes are all different. Why take a class that was so beloved in 2.x and not only drastically change the gameplay style to something that so many people dislike, something SO foreign from what they've learned and enjoyed for 50 levels, but also shove their DPS to dead last? So many people walked away from Bard, even some walked away from the game, because of this. Please, SE, tell me that in the next expansion that Bard is getting a total rework.

[vp_cmc]

Also when you do empyrial arrow+rain of death skills combo, bard's legs are doing 360 degree spin around body. I didn't pay attention to this before, but after I got pointed to it, I can't ignore this.

[Greywolfamakir]

^This. Please please please fix Bard, SE. Bard has been such a complete mess since Heavensward. You can tell that MCH was designed to be a certain way from the ground up, then they got to Bard and got lazy and had no idea what to do other than shoehorn Gauss Barrel-- uh, I mean, Wanderer's Minuet into it. Why are our two ranged physical DPS classes just clunky carbon copies of each other? No other similar classes are like this. SMN and BLM are completely different. The three healing classes are completely different. The three tanking classes are completely different. The melee classes are all different. Why take a class that was so beloved in 2.x and not only drastically change the gameplay style to something that so many people dislike, something SO foreign from what they've learned and enjoyed for 50 levels, but also shove their DPS to dead last? So many people walked away from Bard, even some walked away from the game, because of this. Please, SE, tell me that in the next expansion that Bard is getting a total rework.

[Jilliebeans]

well dont want to sound like a downer, but let be honest here. if they wouldve make BRD any diff they wouldve already lol, so for "anyone" that dont like BRD the way it is then its best to just move on to another class sadly. I know there are still plenty of people who still enjoyed their BRD, if you enjoy the class ull do ur best to make the class worth for ya.

[WhiteArchmage]

The main problem with Bard is that its gameplay changed a lot for the previous mains and it was no longer the class they loved. Wanderer's Minuet was the game-changer that Dreadwyrm Trance was for SMN. Coming from a previous WHM main, I didn't have any problems adapting to HW BRD (enough to make it my new main) and in fact like it a lot even if I rarely break 1.1k DPS (yes, I'm working on it). I WOULD love if WM didn't take away my auto-attacks, though.

Although, really, having used a bow irl, it DOES take a few seconds to nock an arrow, aim and fire it, so...

[Slyqc]

The main problem with Bard is that its gameplay changed a lot for the previous mains and it was no longer the class they loved. Wanderer's Minuet was the game-changer that Dreadwyrm Trance was for SMN. Coming from a previous WHM main, I didn't have any problems adapting to HW BRD (enough to make it my new main) and in fact like it a lot even if I rarely break 1.1k DPS (yes, I'm working on it). I WOULD love if WM didn't take away my auto-attacks, though.

Although, really, having used a bow irl, it DOES take a few seconds to nock an arrow, aim and fire it, so...

Not for Legolas!
Hey look, it's a door.
----->[]

[Maero]

Honestly those still on the "i hate WM" or "WM ruined Bard" bandwagon just need to move on already, no point of playing as something you do not love.

[LilLemay]

Having played both Bard and Machinist (MCH is only 52 so bear with me) I've gotta say the sudden addition of having to charge your shots works for them HOWEVER I think a traditional 1.5s cast time is a bit much, honestly, I think a 1s cast time would be more appropriate for both, given that before hand both classes are pretty fast paced and it's fun to be able to dance in circles around the boss and enemies. with a 1s cast time you'd still be able to move and re-position yourself as needed, but it wouldn't feel nearly as rooted as playing a caster dps does

[Zari]

Having played both Bard and Machinist (MCH is only 52 so bear with me) I've gotta say the sudden addition of having to charge your shots works for them HOWEVER I think a traditional 2.5s cast time is a bit much, honestly, I think a 1s cast time would be more appropriate for both, given that before hand both classes are pretty fast paced and it's fun to be able to dance in circles around the boss and enemies. with a 1s cast time you'd still be able to move and re-position yourself as needed, but it wouldn't feel nearly as rooted as playing a caster dps does

But...it isnt a "traditional cast time" they are given??? They are given a much shorter cast time than actual casters. You can still move around plenty with how fast it is. You just cant run around like an idiot for no reason like so many bards used to do in ARR