Bard in the party... thoughts?

[Warlyx]

changing battle voice to be a physical vulnerabilty , shadowbind changed to heavy on targets inmune to bind .... and i wouldnt mind a buffing heavy shot a bit just a little :3

Pld was buffed because was failing behind on its role

Same happened to AST , BLM , SMN.....MCH ...lots of jobs adjustments. No sweeping changes but its true that Alexander is "harder" if u have a brd instead of MCH ....since MCH have all the CCs , stun , silence (shared cD) , Heavy / knockback (shared) and can put a debuff for casters or melees , regen tp/mp

brds have silence , and bind , regen tp /mp , and magic debuff (that can boost more with BV)

the meta is 2 tanks , 2 melees , 1 ranged , 1 caster ,2 healers so thats 5 players doing physical dmg in a 8 man....way more than half the party is physical now.

[Rawrz]

I miss having a bard. :c Have to work really hard to reach the same numbers as an sch with a mch (physical composition) compared to schs with a battle voicing bard. X.X

[Greywolfamakir]

BRD does not need a buff or a physical vulnerabilty, because BRD is better than MCH with a 2 mages comp.
MCH is better with 2 melee comp, and BRD is better with 2 mages comp, where is the problem? should be BRD better than MCH with any comp? It's not good.

If BRD is better than MCH with 2 mages comp, BRD can't be better with 2 melee comp.

[Slyqc]

I don't think the problem lies in Foe Requiem vs Hypercharge though.
The problem of Bard vs MCH at the moment is the huge gap in DPS between the two classes, their attributions as well as their end game raid content kit.

Square Enix need to decide something at this point, is MCH a support DPS or just a ranged DPS, I don't think the game really need a Bard clone, they really need to change the class so they don't look so similar, just look at healers kit, WHM is a huge heal machine, SCH is a nice off-healer DPS and AS provide some nice DPS support, none of them have the same kit.

I could live with the damage gap if Square Enix decide that MCH is a flat out DPS class, just like a Monk but ranged, but right now it's a Bard clone with more DPS and better end game raid content kit.
As for their kit, it would be kinda cool if Square Enix would not release such blatent lack of proper kit for a class when they release new Raids. Either addapt the raid or addapt the classes.

[Kelevra]

changing battle voice to be a physical vulnerabilty , shadowbind changed to heavy on targets inmune to bind .... and i wouldnt mind a buffing heavy shot a bit just a little :3

Pld was buffed because was failing behind on its role

Same happened to AST , BLM , SMN.....MCH ...lots of jobs adjustments. No sweeping changes but its true that Alexander is "harder" if u have a brd instead of MCH ....since MCH have all the CCs , stun , silence (shared cD) , Heavy / knockback (shared) and can put a debuff for casters or melees , regen tp/mp

brds have silence , and bind , regen tp /mp , and magic debuff (that can boost more with BV)

the meta is 2 tanks , 2 melees , 1 ranged , 1 caster ,2 healers so thats 5 players doing physical dmg in a 8 man....way more than half the party is physical now.

Rain of Death debuff changed from Evasion down to Piercing Resistance down or adjust Foe's Requiem so that it does affect Windbite and Flaming Arrow.

Wide Volley changed from a weapon skill to a 60 sec OGCD ability that can now spread Venomous and Windbite to nearby targets

while under Minuet
- Allow Barrage to hit 4 times (or the Sidewinder suggestion)
- River of Blood trait now increases potency of Bloodletter/Rain of Death whenever reset by Venomous or Windbite and are not on cooldown (up to 2 potency increases---potency increase has a 10-12 sec duration)
- Sidewinder, being affected by Flaming Arrow and having a possible 3rd potency increase (if target is inflicted with both Venomous and Windbite, while standing in the Bard's Flaming Arrow...potency will be increased to 350---I think that's what it was pre nerf) ---- (or the Barrage suggestion)

...those are some things I would suggest for helping with dmg

For utility, dunno...maybe give Repelling Shot the added effect of a stun or heavy?

[Slyqc]

@Kelevra

Your ideas seem a little overkill, especially if you add them all. lol

1 - Barrage going to 4 hits seems kinda high, but adding the possibilty for skills to crit would be pretty good
2 - 2 potency? Did you mean 20 potency maybe?
3 - Given the curve of Sidewinder (100-175-250) 325 seems more realistic, it could be a good idea but I'm kinda scare of the damage it would pull off if you have a dragoon in your team, pre-nerf it was 350 and the had to nerf it because of it.

Maybe setting back Empyreal potency back to 240 wouldn't be that much of a bad idea.

[Jilliebeans]

Just give brd another skill that work like foe but physical instead of magic then Brd will be fine plus battle voice increase it to 20%, any group with physical group comp will fall in love with brd.we better remember that BRD is a class that not meant to do crazy dmg but they meant to increase group party dmg, that's what make brd shine the most in group fight.

As for MCH the developers already mention it's meant to be a high burst dmg with a few support kits, so I really doubt anything will change for this class, if anything they might make this class even easier to play because they want everyone to enjoy the class just how everyone enjoy brd.

In the end brd might not do high burst dmg like MCH but their support buff is strong enough for raids to wants them in group.

[Kelevra]

1-yeah, I meant either the Barrage change or the Sidewinder change, not both
2-potency increase would be up for SE to decide
3-with Sidewinder, I got my numbers mixed up...actually did mean 350, but it's cool if lower, but third potency increase shouldn't be less or equal to what current maximum is...wouldn't have made the suggestion if overall potency was just gonna stay the same (again, either the Barrage change or the Sidewinder change...not both)

Rain of Death would still be overridden by a Drg's Disembowel cause the effect lasts longer than RoD's...but if a Drg and Brd where in the party, it just means there combined AoE would be better (not Nin and Brd, not Mnk and Brd) and the Drg wouldn't have to go through there Chaos Thrust combo (the lower potency one) for the piercing debuff. If RoD is being kept up...they could just go straight to Full Thrust combos (the higher potency one) if they wanted and work there aoes in as needed. As well as the lone caster (and dps'n healers) benefiting as well if Foe's is playing. Making it so the Bard would benefit: themself, a Drg, both healers, and the lone caster in a 'typical' 8 man setup vs the Mch that benifits: themself, the two melee and the two tanks in a 'typical' 8 man setup.

But if they don't want to give Bard the Piercing debuff thru RoD, they can still adjust Foe's to properly affect Windbite and Flaming Arrow.

and it might be overkill if all those changes actually happened which is why I am more of the mindset "either, or" on these suggestions

[RiceisNice]

.... the Drg wouldn't have to go through there Chaos Thrust combo (the lower potency one) for the piercing debuff. If RoD is being kept up...they could just go straight to Full Thrust combos (the higher potency one)

Chaos Thrust is more potency than Full thrust. A DRG would still be doing their chaos thrust combo regardless of if there was another job providing piercing or not.

Infact, most compositions already have DRG in it anyway, it'd be ultimately pointless give BRD a piercing buff to "boost their dps", espesically when their dps is going to be balanced around that (much like how MCH's dps is "boosted" by hypercharge)

Just give brd another skill that work like foe but physical instead of magic then Brd will be fine plus battle voice increase it to 20%, any group with physical group comp will fall in love with brd.we better remember that BRD is a class that not meant to do crazy dmg but they meant to increase group party dmg, that's what make brd shine the most in group fight.

As for MCH the developers already mention it's meant to be a high burst dmg with a few support kits, so I really doubt anything will change for this class, if anything they might make this class even easier to play because they want everyone to enjoy the class just how everyone enjoy brd.

On the end brd might not do high burst dmg like MCH but their support buff is strong enough for raids to wants them in group.

And homogenize the two more than they already are? BRD doesn't need a physical debuff just as how MCH doesn't need a good magic debuff (because bishop hypercharge is pretty terrible and is an extremely poor man's option for a caster comp)

They've also insisted numerous times that MCH and BRD both fill the same niche of the "Dps support" role.

[Kelevra]

Chaos Thrust is more potency than Full thrust. A DRG would still be doing their chaos thrust combo regardless of if there was another job providing piercing or not.

Infact, most compositions already have DRG in it anyway, it'd be ultimately pointless give BRD a piercing buff to "boost their dps", espesically when their dps is going to be balanced around that (much like how MCH's dps is "boosted" by hypercharge)



And homogenize the two more than they already are? BRD doesn't need a physical debuff just as how MCH doesn't need a good magic debuff (because bishop hypercharge is pretty terrible and is an extremely poor man's option for a caster comp)

They've also insisted numerous times that MCH and BRD both fill the same niche of the "Dps support" role.

like I said, it's a suggestion (my mistake on the Drg combo potency)

'Most?' maybe. But not every group does and Bard needs something for itself when a Drg isn't present (my static is with Mnk and Nin as the melee atm). That's why I said either the piercing debuff or adjusting Foe's to properly affect Windbite and Flaming Arrow.