Bard in the party... thoughts?

[Judge_Xero]

@Dubah, I get what you are saying about bad players. Like on Calcabrina in the AntiTower I can kill the adds faster as SCH than most DPS during Dollhouse.

I just dont agree with the mindset that Players are bad so therefore BRD is bad, since it falls on any class. Personally I cringe every time I see a NIN in the party, as they are the most common ones I see in DF with terrible DPS. Actually the last time I was in The Aery I was with a NIN who stood in every AOE and couldn't break the jail, so I just let them die so I could DPS as SCH without worrying about them, otherwise we'd never have beat Nidhogg.

[RiceisNice]

Lets face it bad DPS is bad DPS. Doesn't matter what job. I've had more melee ignore the prison than I can count. So do I call all of them bad because of it? No.

And well the lore weapon for bards is meh. Though bards can at least benefit from skillspeed a bit better(having ~600 is minimal), det is just sad this patch cycle though. But we do have a relic that's just fine.

I wasn't commenting on the prison, but yes. There's no co-relation to BRDs and failure to mechanics, only bad players and failures to mechanics.

BRD benefits so much more from skill speed than MCH does, since it affects the CD of empyreal arrow, two DoTs, and in general they deal more damage from their personal GCDs. MCH's turret doesn't scale off skill speed, rapid fire devalues skill speed, and they only have one DoT.

In the grand context of things, BRD is nowhere near as bad as people would like to make it out to be. Id argue their personal dps is still better than that on a MCH especially as time passes (due to better scaling off secondary stats), and the hypercharge buff only really evens out the playing field if you're looking at a 2 melee/1 caster comp .

[Slyqc]

@RiceisNice

I'm inviting you to take a look at FFLogs, Bards are falling behind every other DPS at the moment, but like we said, they need a buff but nothing crazy either, they just need to catch on that 100-200 DPS they are missing on MCH at the moment.

[Caitlinzulu]

As a bard main, we lacking skillspeed? I've allways found more skillspeed only makes our tp run out faster.

[RiceisNice]

@RiceisNice

I'm inviting you to take a look at FFLogs, Bards are falling behind every other DPS at the moment, but like we said, they need a buff but nothing crazy either, they just need to catch on that 100-200 DPS they are missing on MCH at the moment.

The problem with looking at FFlogs (and I have, at least skimmed through it anyway) is that there's more than just the numbers you need to look at. There's factors such as clear time (which is generally an entire minute difference) and buffs (including potions and such), it's hard to make a 1:1 comparison with those in mind. Though I do agree that BRD is under-represented, but that's generally because of favored group compositions (such as how BRDs were more represented in 3.1, but the dps difference between the two were very similar)

[Jilliebeans]

i think BRD is fine the way it is, its a decent dps with BEST utility kits... u guys gotta remember this is a "DPS/SUPPORT" class its not meant to be a full burst class like dragoon/mnk or blm (but ofcose there are a few BRD can do burst dmg if played very well). theirs songs are pretty much make up for their dps, Foe increases magical class dps such as WHM/BLM/SMN/SCH/AST or even NNJ, so BRD might not do the best dps but their songs are something really make them shine in a group. if a BRD can do A LOT of dmg and have the best group utility then everyone would be rolling a BRD right? they had to balance the class out.

[AskaRay]

@RiceisNice

I'm inviting you to take a look at FFLogs, Bards are falling behind every other DPS at the moment, but like we said, they need a buff but nothing crazy either, they just need to catch on that 100-200 DPS they are missing on MCH at the moment.

Not everyone uses FFLogs....
and before you say "people who matter use it!" well, that's obviously not true either.

[Slyqc]

@Jilliebeans

Well MCH have a kit pretty similar in term of support, the only difference beeing that they have a 5% vulnerability debuff that doesn't require you to empty your mana, in the end this vulnerability debuff ends up beeing way better than foe requiem since groups nowadays run 2 melee DPS, 1 magic caster, 1 bard / mch.
This is why, I think that changing damage dealt by Wanderers Minuet into magic damage would be a pretty good thing and balance the two classes. Since active skills aren't using Wanderers Minuet, it would still do physical damage, so you can prevent DPS debalancing from Bloodletter and Sidewinder.

[Jilliebeans]

who said u have to empty ur mana? most of BRD i seen only use it to half of their mana then they turned off their foe, Using it half of your mana will last around 15-20s? that already plenty of time to help clear the mobs and also help the healer to be able to put out even more dmg (seem most of healer are running cleris stance these days WHICH IS GREAT). As for MCH i believe u are talking about "Hypercharge" which increase physical attack/magical attack dmg taken by 10% for 20s, it is true it doesnt cost mana BUT it has such a long cd (120s -20s duration which is 100s cd)so you have to use it right otherwise the skill will be wasted BUT with foe you can cast ANYTIME you want to help healer does more dmg so the run can be faster.

PS: dont underestimate healer DMG lol, some of them does very good dmg and even better with foe up.

I do like the idea having some "magical skill" for BRD though, i hope the developer might consider it in the future.!

[RiceisNice]

@Jilliebeans]

This is why, I think that changing damage dealt by Wanderers Minuet into magic damage would be a pretty good thing and balance the two classes. Since active skills aren't using Wanderers Minuet, it would still do physical damage, so you can prevent DPS debalancing from Bloodletter and Sidewinder.

We don't need to change BRD into a literal caster more than they already are... Plus hypercharge doesn't last as long as foe reqiuem, nor do you have as much control over it. Every second you're not using hypercharge is also a personal dps loss to the MCH cause it's turret potency as well.