Bard in the party... thoughts?

[Jilliebeans]

i think BRD is fine the way it is, its a decent dps with BEST utility kits... u guys gotta remember this is a "DPS/SUPPORT" class its not meant to be a full burst class like dragoon/mnk or blm (but ofcose there are a few BRD can do burst dmg if played very well). theirs songs are pretty much make up for their dps, Foe increases magical class dps such as WHM/BLM/SMN/SCH/AST or even NNJ, so BRD might not do the best dps but their songs are something really make them shine in a group. if a BRD can do A LOT of dmg and have the best group utility then everyone would be rolling a BRD right? they had to balance the class out.

[Slyqc]

@Jilliebeans

Well MCH have a kit pretty similar in term of support, the only difference beeing that they have a 5% vulnerability debuff that doesn't require you to empty your mana, in the end this vulnerability debuff ends up beeing way better than foe requiem since groups nowadays run 2 melee DPS, 1 magic caster, 1 bard / mch.
This is why, I think that changing damage dealt by Wanderers Minuet into magic damage would be a pretty good thing and balance the two classes. Since active skills aren't using Wanderers Minuet, it would still do physical damage, so you can prevent DPS debalancing from Bloodletter and Sidewinder.

[Jilliebeans]

who said u have to empty ur mana? most of BRD i seen only use it to half of their mana then they turned off their foe, Using it half of your mana will last around 15-20s? that already plenty of time to help clear the mobs and also help the healer to be able to put out even more dmg (seem most of healer are running cleris stance these days WHICH IS GREAT). As for MCH i believe u are talking about "Hypercharge" which increase physical attack/magical attack dmg taken by 10% for 20s, it is true it doesnt cost mana BUT it has such a long cd (120s -20s duration which is 100s cd)so you have to use it right otherwise the skill will be wasted BUT with foe you can cast ANYTIME you want to help healer does more dmg so the run can be faster.

PS: dont underestimate healer DMG lol, some of them does very good dmg and even better with foe up.

I do like the idea having some "magical skill" for BRD though, i hope the developer might consider it in the future.!

[RiceisNice]

@Jilliebeans]

This is why, I think that changing damage dealt by Wanderers Minuet into magic damage would be a pretty good thing and balance the two classes. Since active skills aren't using Wanderers Minuet, it would still do physical damage, so you can prevent DPS debalancing from Bloodletter and Sidewinder.

We don't need to change BRD into a literal caster more than they already are... Plus hypercharge doesn't last as long as foe reqiuem, nor do you have as much control over it. Every second you're not using hypercharge is also a personal dps loss to the MCH cause it's turret potency as well.

[vp_cmc]

@Jilliebeans

Well MCH have a kit pretty similar in term of support

Let the holy war begin!

Mch has:
heavy - useful in a3s adds or a6s adds phases (2-nd boss)
stun - useful in a7s big add
mini virus that lowers physical or magical attacks (dismantle\rend mind) - useful in big aoe hits

brd has nothing to counter it.
brd has:
foe, ok, but not best choice in current group setups. and root+hypercharge increases mch dps while foe doesn't increase bards
second wind (as cross, yes)
better aoe capabilities - cool in dungeons, not important in current raids.

P.S. was playing brd since 2.0 beta, switched to mch in 3.2, it is just too good to ignore. Brd is still well geared (they share all gear but weapons) and ready for future balance changes.

[Slyqc]

@vp_cmc

That, I think you said everything else that had to be said, I dare anyone to actually try to respond to that.

[RiceisNice]

Let the holy war begin!

Mch has:
heavy - useful in a3s adds or a6s adds phases (2-nd boss)
stun - useful in a7s big add
mini virus that lowers physical or magical attacks (dismantle\rend mind) - useful in big aoe hits
.

-Heavy is also done by healers, summoners and BLMs. It's not exclusive enough to MCH to say it's something they can hold over BRD's head.
-The stun is a shorter duration than most melee stuns, let alone paladin stuns.
- It's 5%. This is hardly something ever worth bringing up in a BRD/MCH comparison at least from a progression standpoint.

brd has nothing to counter it.
brd has:
foe, ok, but not best choice in current group setups. and root+hypercharge increases mch dps while foe doesn't increase bards
second wind (as cross, yes)

-MCH has no answer to rain of death lowering enemy's evasion
-Foe still does it's job better regards to uptime and especially healer dps (combined with rain of death).
-MCH has no self heals, and this has been a bit of an issue more than I'd like, in solo, PvP and Raids.

And on the note of hypercharge increasing MCH's dps, keep in mind it also increases BRD's dps if they are in the same party. Even if oyu took the two into a vaccum, their personal dps is still close together even in consideration of hypercahrge boosting MCH's dps. That's like saying disembowel boosts DRG's dps.

[RinchanNau]

- It's 5%. This is hardly something ever worth bringing up in a BRD/MCH comparison at least from a progression standpoint.

5% from Dismantle on Final Punch saved our first A8S clear from being a wipe. However little it may seem, it can make all the difference in progression.

[Jilliebeans]

Let the holy war begin!

Mch has:
heavy - useful in a3s adds or a6s adds phases (2-nd boss)
stun - useful in a7s big add
mini virus that lowers physical or magical attacks (dismantle\rend mind) - useful in big aoe hits

brd has nothing to counter it.
brd has:
foe, ok, but not best choice in current group setups. and root+hypercharge increases mch dps while foe doesn't increase bards
second wind (as cross, yes)
better aoe capabilities - cool in dungeons, not important in current raids.

P.S. was playing brd since 2.0 beta, switched to mch in 3.2, it is just too good to ignore. Brd is still well geared (they share all gear but weapons) and ready for future balance changes.

Sorry this is not even a good comparison, there are things that BRD can do and MCH can NOT. i strongly agreed with Riceisnice.

[Slyqc]

At least for the moment, if only they could make so that Shadowbind could bind the Alpha orbs, I would be pretty darn happy.