Tri-bind

[Cynric]

Let's compare the two ailments.
Bind : Halts all movement for the duration of the debuff, Resistance built will reduce the length of the debuff. Actions can still be used while binded. If a player is within range of you you can still attack them/CC them while binded. Tri-bind can be swiftcasted for a 6 second bind.(Originally 12) , GCD

Sleep: Halts all movement and actions for the duration of the debuff, Reistance built will reduce the length of the debuff. Only purify can be used while slept.
Nightwing : Instant cast AoE Sleep , Duration 15 seconds, CD 180 seconds
Sleep : Duration 15 seconds, GCD, swiftcastable.

Sleep is a more powerful version of bind with a longer duration under the same constraints as tri-bind.

[Exira]

Maybe in Frontlines but it was the only crowd control that SMN had and in The feast it could help you and your healer.
(I know that there is Blizzard II too, but it has no range, had shorter duration and it is still a bind)
They nerfed heavily it's damage AND reduced his crowd control ability too.
I think I'll be a little salty but probably in the 2.25 they will make you unable to recast your pet ._.

I agree that SMN nerf was needed but this to me was the wrong adjustment, they should atleast give Heavy effect back to Miasma (not Miasma II)

I guess I don't understand this sentiment. You had a spammable aoe bind and more burst than a BRD AND more sustained damage with a landed bane. BRD had a single bind on a long cool down...and what other cc...blast shot lol? MCH had more than BRD but not spammable nor aoe other than stun gun. This is what balance is

[Enlial]

Just... why? It is now 6 seconds. yet sleep stands at 15. both are essentially the same thing, both have cast times, stops movement, the only down side to Tri-bind is it doesn't stop casting. WHICH SLEEP DOES!! so why is one nerfed and the other (blackmage not only has a cast-able but also instant OGC) left untouched.

with the exception of heals you need to be facing your target in order to cast. Bind prevents you from turning so at least as far as non-heals it does kinda stop casting. Blizzard II is awesome, not sure why I dont see it used more.

The absolute shitstorm that accompanies every single change SE makes to anything is getting pretty silly (remember The AST NERF GOES TOO FAR thread? Yet ast is still >arguably< the strongest healer in pvp) but I tend to agree that this and the dot nerf was a bit excessive, 25% hit to deathflare was more than enough.

"SMN has too much utility" -quote by nobody ever

[Cynric]

snip

The problem isn't that SMN didn't deserve a nerf to their potency. It's that Tri-bind really wasn't all that powerful of a tool in all honesty to warrant a nerf. If the idea of Tri-bind being to powerful(Tri-Bind outside of swiftcast does have a cast time) Then sleep is also too powerful. That's not quite balance.

Yes SMN needed to be nerfed. Tri-Bind could have been very potent at 12s and needed a nerf, however sleep at 15 seconds is also extremely potent and stronger than bind and did not receive a nerf. That's the main issue here. I strongly believe SMN deserved their nerf, however I disagree with only nerfing Tri-bind and not touching on anything else after allowing casters to cast spells easier.

Tri-bind was a stronger tool in frontlines with a coordinated group where you have multiple caster Limit breaks going off. In 4v4 that won't happen.

[Exira]

snip

The fact that it's aoe and has the potential to hit more than one person is where the power lies not the duration. I think we all agree that sleep is a problem. But thats a more complex problem to tackle. I think this brings smn more in line with BRD/MCH. Which I'm all for. Tri-bind was incredibly powerful in Wolves den and that didn't magically go away. There was just other things on people's radar

[Cynric]

snip

I can agree with you that Tri-bind was very powerful in potential, however I have rarely seen an occasion in 4v4(feast) where Tri-bind caught enough players to see it's AoE potential shine. My problem however is not that it was nerfed. I agree that a 12s AoE bind is definitely powerful. However it's their sense of balance I have an issue with. The fact that they raced to nerf SMN, and not only nerfed its potency, but also nerfed its CC, without touching already existing powerful CC such as sleep is my main issue.

I have no problem with nerfs. It's the way they did them and what they left alone I have a problem with. If they had also nerfed sleep I would have been okay with it. They're both pretty powerful forms of CC, but they honestly could have either waited and done them both at the same time in 3.25, or done them both right now.

The way they did it just doesn't make me feel like they understand what needs to be fixed and when it needs to be fixed.

Basically I'm not saying that Tri-bind itself wasn't strong. Just that Tri-Bind is not as powerful as sleep, yet Tri-Bind was nerfed and sleep was unchanged.

If the devs felt Tri-Bind was too strong then sleep should have also been touched.

They nerfed one and left the other the same. So it's just weird to me. Sleep is indeed stronger than bind. So it makes no sense to nerf a bind and leave sleep as is. Binds are not as powerful as sleep.

If they felt like Tri-Bind was stronger than sleep then I question their understanding of balance.

[Exira]

I can agree with you that Tri-bind was very powerful, however I have rarely seen an occasion in 4v4(feast) where Tri-bind caught enough players to see it's AoE potential shine. My problem however is not that it was nerfed. I agree that a 12s AoE bind is definitely powerful. However it's their sense of balance I have an issue with. The fact that they raced to nerf SMN, and not only nerfed its potency, but also nerfed its CC,...

Completely agree. The blindside cc nerf was strange and I'm certain they don't actual utilize any NA feedback because some of the things he listed were either blatantly opposed here or not even mentioned. I can only assume most of the feedback is JP. I was concerned when they gave one day of notice for all that balance too....like who did you discuss this with and when? Would help if there wasn't such a huge language barrier

[StouterTaru]

Just... why? It is now 6 seconds. yet sleep stands at 15. both are essentially the same thing, both have cast times, stops movement, the only down side to Tri-bind is it doesn't stop casting. WHICH SLEEP DOES!! so why is one nerfed and the other (blackmage not only has a cast-able but also instant OGC) left untouched.

It was way too powerful, with it's insanely high AoE potency of 30 and near instant cast time of 3 seconds. AND it also binds.

[Exira]

It was way too powerful, with it's insanely high AoE potency of 30 and near instant cast time of 3 seconds. AND it also binds.

Someone's salty

[Cynric]

Snip

This is how I feel as well and why I'm not exactly happy with the current balancing act. It almost feels like they pay very little attention to what has actually been said and to the actual state of pvp itself. I mean, in other threads I also examined SMN as being overpowered, however such a half done balancing act really frustrates me. If they were going to do it halfway then they could have left Tri-bind till 3.25. Either way they should delay the season start as they appear to still be play-testing the game mode.

I also don't see what their need to make the game mode faster is. I feel like they have very little PVP experience with this game and others.