Can Accuracy and Parry be removed already?

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Its kind of a silly stat; think about it. If you don't have accuracy; you can't even hit the monster which is simply artificial gating. There is literally nothing to think about and no skill attached to this stat. You need an X amount of accuracy or your skills just don't work.

Secondary stats need to be cool, helpful, and actually meaningful. All this does is pretty much artificially gate players. Its not really an important stat to be honest.


Parry is the same, the statistics for it are so low right now it doesn't really matter. You can have 5000 parry and it would still feel like a pointless stat.



How about we remove these joke secondaries and replace them with more meaningful ones?

"-% Threat"
"+% Threat"
"Thorns" = reflect damage + damage reduction.
"+% TP Reduction"
"+% Mana Reduction"
"+% Reuse Speed"
"+% Casting Speed."

Skill Speed, and Spell Speed are kind of worthless too. After all the Skill/Spell speed on my gear it barely raises it to anything. Its NOT even 5%. Why even have the stats if they don't feel significant?

[Ragology]

DC universe online went with % based stat increases at the beginning. They ended up having to give enemie attacks an "armor piercing" effect since the defense stats trivialized content. People then complained what's the point of raising stats if the mobs are just gonna armor pierce proportionally anyway.

[Evilkitten]

I personally find each of the stats significant even Parry, even though this stat has been argued above and beyond I personally don't see why it should be removed.

However, I would find additional stat more interesting, like the ones you've mention, and allow players to further explore how to develop their gear into something really nice.

[Iagainsti]

Where's my daily baked deliciousness, Toruyna?

[Kosmos992k]

::rolls eyes::
Get your popcorn folks, this is one of those threads...

To answer the OP, no thanks, rather than removing them, I'd rather see some common sense applied to them.

1) Accuracy is a measure of how well you place your weapon when striking something, if you are accurate enough you hit. So...Accuracy should affect Parry.

2) Parry sucks because there is no way to alter the strength of the parry, the scaling of parry was screwed up completely and for PLD, Parry happens after blocking is evaluated, reducing parry's impact tremendously for PLD. I'd rather see each chance of blocking and parrying being evaluated separately, and only if a blow is both blocked and parried would blocking take precedence over parry.

Throwing in 7 new secondaries all but one of which are % based is just adding needless complexity.

SkillSpeed and SpellSpeed being separate stats is a bit nonsensical to me, I will agree since they both measure speed and you never have both stacked, so DoW always stack SkillSpeed and DoM always stack Spell Speed. Would be better to simply have Speed which works for both, and doesn't need two types of materia.

Rather than adding new stats, I think it would be better to re-evaluate the existing ones and the impacts that they have, each of the primary and secondary stats should have a good reason to exist, and a good reason to be used by one or another class/job. Presently there are too many stats that have very little impact on play and Parry is one of the worst offenders.

I'd suggest giving Accuracy a 0.1 (plucking a number from thin air) Parry weighting, so a high accuracy will have a beneficial impact on the parry rate.
I'd suggest allowing the attack power (or determination) of a player to vary the strength of the parry.
I'd suggest merging both SkillSpeed and SpellSpeed into a single Speed stat, and replace all Skill Speed/Spell Speed with tier equivalent 'Speed' materia.

I'd like to see determination have an impact on things like cure strength, block strength, parry strength (but not attack power or damage) and even our resistance to status effects and elements. Critical Hit is as it should be, it should also be possible to critical a parry.

Two secondary stats I would like to see added would be stats that apply directly to your physical or magic defense. Materia for this would not be able to me melded to armor, but only to accessories. The impact of this should be mild, so perhaps 0.25 DEF per stat point. This would let players increase their defense more dynamically, and independent of armor worn. It would also allow PLD & DRG to increase their magic defense, if they wanted, for example.

Note: Please note that much like the OP, these suggestions are all 'off-the-cuff' and are not meant to be fully realized proposals for specific changes....

[Ashkendor]

I find it amusing that you're asking for accuracy to be removed when you don't do any of the content that hitting accuracy caps is required for. If all you do is run dungeons and Normal tier Alexander, you can pretty much ignore secondaries anyway.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

::rolls eyes::
Get your popcorn folks, this is one of those threads...

To answer the OP, no thanks, rather than removing them, I'd rather see some common sense applied to them.

1) Accuracy is a measure of how well you place your weapon when striking something, if you are accurate enough you hit. So...Accuracy should affect Parry.

2) Parry sucks because there is no way to alter the strength of the parry, the scaling of parry was screwed up completely and for PLD, Parry happens after blocking is evaluated, reducing parry's impact tremendously for PLD. I'd rather see each chance of blocking and parrying being evaluated separately, and only if a blow is both blocked and parried would blocking take precedence over parry.

Throwing in 7 new secondaries all but one of which are % based is just adding needless complexity.

SkillSpeed and SpellSpeed being separate stats is a bit nonsensical to me, I will agree since they both measure speed and you never have both stacked, so DoW always stack SkillSpeed and DoM always stack Spell Speed. Would be better to simply have Speed which works for both, and doesn't need two types of materia.

Rather than adding new stats, I think it would be better to re-evaluate the existing ones and the impacts that they have, each of the primary and secondary stats should have a good reason to exist, and a good reason to be used by one or another class/job. Presently there are too many stats that have very little impact on play and Parry is one of the worst offenders.

Indeed. Parry is rather insignificant to the point I can remove all of it and not feel a single thing.

Skill Speed and Spell Speed are insignificant as well; it feels like it does nothing to DOTs like it originally stated it would either.

Accuracy is a stupid stat honestly; I have always hated it.


Accuracy =
Critical Mitigation in EQ2.
Hit Rating in RIFT.
That one stat in World of Warcraft. I forget what it was.

They ALL need removed; any stat that is there just to gate out players is silly.

[Kosmos992k]

Indeed. Parry is rather insignificant to the point I can remove all of it and not feel a single thing.

Skill Speed and Spell Speed are insignificant as well; it feels like it does nothing to DOTs like it originally stated it would either.

Accuracy is a stupid stat honestly; I have always hated it.

They ALL need removed; any stat that is there just to gate out players is silly.

That makes zero sense to me sir.

Accuracy is how accurate you hit, it's a fundamental aspect of any fighting system.
Parrying is a fundamental aspect of physical combat where blows can be parried by your weapon, and could reasonably extend to magic with magical weapons.
Two separate Speed stats is silly, you never have both, so only one is needed. Speed is a core aspect of how players move. High speed should equal more action in less time, I don't see why or how removing SkillSpeed/SpellSpeed is a positive change at all.

[Kosmos992k]

I find it amusing that you're asking for accuracy to be removed when you don't do any of the content that hitting accuracy caps is required for. If all you do is run dungeons and Normal tier Alexander, you can pretty much ignore secondaries anyway.

This is unfortunately true. However, if I may, I would like to speak in support of secondary stats. If secondary stats were handled better, and had meaningful, but slight impact, they would be an aspect of gearing to allow alternate builds, and therefore offer more options to players rather than fewer options. But for that to happen, the relevance of secondary stats needs improvement.

[MiniPrinny]

-snip-

Throwing in my own two gil here.

Accuracy is... a strange stat. In many ways, its existence and purpose is to emulate the "good ol' days" of pen & paper or the (now ancient) first MMORPGs. Accuracy's purpose in a modern world, is an ode to antiquity, it is an archaic means of presenting the gear wall. So rather than balancing the fights around a certain level of damage output from the roles involved in those fights, the developers can just insert a lazy gear wall in the forms of accuracy. SquareEnix, surprisingly, has done both, which makes accuracy a meaningless stat that every player knows to get to a single number for their Job and ignore it afterwards. We already have well balanced fights, based around how much damage we do, accuracy is just on gear for reasons that have yet to be clearly defined. As a stat in the game's code, it is fine, since it allows for things like "tanks being the only ones who can reliably hit from the front... in their tanking stance" but as a stat on gear, it becomes just a hassle for all involved.

In a similar manner, parry's biggest concerns is not that it exists, but that it has been and still is being executed upon poorly. Currently, parry only really interacts with one tank, who relies on it for powerful counter-attacks: Reprisal and after level 36, Low Blow. Paladins meanwhile, interact with Block, which is rolled for, as you mentioned, after Parry is, which means that Parry, while making the Paladin more durable, hurts the Paladin's damage output as a tank, since it removes potential Shield Swipes from them. Additionally, it is no secret that parry scales horribly, making even large amounts of it pale in comparison to all of its peers as a stat for making tanks more durable.

I agree with you fully on Skill Speed and Spell Speed, and wish to add, that making these stats one stat, would also help Paladins and Dark Knights, who rely on spells for either supporting the party or controlling multiple targets. Currently, Skill Speed doesn't apply to Flash, Clemency, Stoneskin, Protect, Unmend, Unleash, or Abyssal Drain. Cure and Raise are also in there... but who takes those?

So yes, I'd like to see the stats re-evaluated as well, currently critical hit rating and determination are trump all others, with skill/spell speed becoming more valuable over time for some Jobs and remaining garbage for others.