Is dpsing and a healer becoming the standard norm!

[sorahu]

Another question: why does SE nerf down dps, then put up such high dps checks in raid content?

[AeraLure]

A healer dpsing has been a thing for as long as I have played. No changes and yet this topic keeps coming up. If anything it altered a little in that if you play as a WHM you're usually expected to solo heal in 8-person play. That wasn't always the case. I used to dps a lot there but now it's far riskier for me to do that.

[Waliel]

I also think healing should be made harder, but in a different way. By nerfing heal potencies. Trippling damage would cause damage to be spiky and therefore it would have to be made predictable so the tank doesn't die to RNG. I prefer damage being mostly smooth with a bit of randomness and occasional tank busters. Nerfing our heals would keep damage patterns the same but would require us to heal more often. That way our dps wouldn't need nerfed either (= ruined for soloing). It would be naturally lowered because there wouldn't be as much time for it.

That would work too. I think WoW took that approach with Draenor, but I didn't enjoy it that much. I felt like my heals did nothing. Some combination of both could be best. At least for my tastes.

Who says that I, as a healer or a tank, am not doing my job while I'm dealing damage? I heal when I have to as a healer, and I keep the hate and keep mitigating damage on tank while also dealing damage.

I don't know. Does someone say that to you?

[Keramory]

Is a healer, unless I'm feeling extremely lazy / dungeon burned out, I always dps like crazy.

And as a result I'm complemented a lot. People sometimes even go out of their way to tell me I'm one of the few who do my job.

Honestly though it makes me a little irked and want to stop dpsing. Even though I dps I don't believe in any form that healers HAVE to dps. Half the time I dps in the first place is cause dps is lazy themselves and I want to end the dungeon quickly. Im not understanding why tanks and healers are constantly being questioned but never dps.

[Kolsykol]

It's something that I actually love about healing in this game about being a healer. If you don't like it, well.... Sad I guess. But at the same time, like every other MMO out there is already catered to you at that point. So I can't say that I feel all that much sympathy for you because ONE game happens to cater more towards me and others in terms of healers roles.
Seriously, if I didn't dps and stance dance. I'd probably just be standing still for long extended perids of times. Which is quite often exactly what happens in other MMOs. Healers in this game can actually put out some good dps.
So yes, if you have the capacity to put out good damage. But you just stand around doing nothing for extended periods of times and refuse to dps '' cuz healer ''. No, you're not actually playing your character correctly.
And quite honestly, I don't blame people for becoming a bit moody at people who refuse to do it. What are you even doing? Why are you even playing a healer in this game then? If you solely want to heal and nothing else, there's.... Every other MMO ever out there...
Obviously, I don't condone people being assholes or anything.
But I'd be lying if I said that it didn't bother me when people refuse to do it.
As I said.... You have every MMO ever out there. It's rather self centered to throw a tempter tantrum and refuse to do it and slow everything down for everyone else. Just because healing in this one game doesn't suit you.

[Kaurie]

It's something that I actually love about healing in this game about being a healer. If you don't like it, well.... Sad I guess. But at the same time, like every other MMO out there is already catered to you at that point. So I can't say that I feel all that much sympathy for you because ONE game happens to cater more towards me and others in terms of healers roles.

Interesting. I came to FFXIV solely because it was one of the few games I could find with a dedicated healer in a trinity form. Outside of WoW, this has been pretty hard to find. Tera and Wildstar both had it, but I found healing in those games to be frustrating rather than fun. Guild Wars 2 removed healers entirely and every one is just a glorified DPS with a self heal skill on a long cooldown (though I think they've sort-of added a healer with the recent expansion). WoW is really the only game I've played with a proper healer in recent years. Yes, I could go to WoW, and I may. However, I came to FFXIV because it advertised a similar trinity system that WoW has.

Perhaps you can give me some examples of great MMO's that cater to healers having to keep on their toes with healing?

are you trying to defend this poor game design? yes, at the moment healing is not really rquired. and that's BAD game design in a game with a trinity. as a healer i want something to HEAL, not dpsing 99% of the time.

it's like square has forgotten to built content with healers in mind...

I am not promoting or defending anything in the quote you provided. I was simply providing an example to explain the state of things in current expert dungeons. However, if you'd like to know my opinion(s):

- The current expert roulettes are a joke for difficulty, and I do not understand why they did this
- I play a healer to heal and help my team through clutch situations. Nothing in this game supports this feeling
- If it came down to afki'ing through a dungeon or DPSing through a dungeon on my SCH, I choose DPS
- If it came down to DPSing through a dungeon, or having damage output approximately 10-15x as much as it is now, while also being sporadic in who is needing heals (requiring thought, reflex, reactive and proactive measures etc) then I would choose healing [This would also require all healing skills MP be reduced, PIE be increased or some combination]

They do. It's just not in the dungeons.

I disagree, even in raids and such, DPS from healers is very much a thing. Further, healing is way too predictable. I know exactly which person will be hit when for how much at any given point. Healing in Guild Wars 1 was much more involved and interesting even in just the open world (I use 'open world' loosely here as technically everything was instanced). To elaborate, a proactive measure in Guild Wars 1 would be - Oh i see a big ass mob running towards our caster, I'll start casting a big heal on the caster. A proactive measure in FFXIV is oh it's 2:43 into the fight, let's adlo the ranged DPS.

It's not bad game design. Healers are there to keep your HP high up and remove detrimental effects whenever necessary. That's mainly their job and if they're good at it then they're healing fine, but do you really have to heal all the time when everyone in the party is in good shape or not in dangerously low health? No.

The bad game design is that players neither get detrimental effects, nor hurt in the current expert dungeons. The person quoted me, where I noted that I cast one spell for the purpose of healing someone for an entire 24 minute dungeon.



TLDR: Healing in this game is easy. Healers can put out amazing DPS. If you don't DPS as a healer in this game, you're doing it wrong and you're a bad player. This system sucks, please make healers heal.

[dinnertime]

TLDR: Healing in this game is easy. Healers can put out amazing DPS. If you don't DPS as a healer in this game, you're doing it wrong and you're a bad player. This system sucks, please make healers heal.

You're wrong if you think raids, trials etc. also need minimal healing like in dungeons, especially something like savage raids and Sephirot EX which is such a healer-intensive fight during the adds phases. And predictable? During enrage, sure, but you're so incorrect about this.

If nobody is taking damage or suffering detrimental effects in the expert dungeons then that could mean the party is good at avoiding all these bad things and the tank is good at mitigating damage with their own cooldowns, giving an easier life for the healer. If you actually want them to suffer more damage and debuffs just so you can have the satisfaction of healing them more then feel free to ask them to intentionally get hit by all the mechanics.

Healers are meant to DPS during downtime anyway. I mean, they were given Cleric Stance and were given offensive skills at 52-60, especially WHM with the most given like Aero III, Assize and Stone III.
Both healing and contributing to DPS means you're helping the party even more. Lacking in one means you're not playing the role as efficiently. It's been mentioned in the Novice Hall itself that healers should be casting damaging magicks if the party is fine so nobody can't really deny that healers weren't meant to DPS.

No other roles have such flexibility to heal other than the healer themselves. The tank can but it's not as efficient. You heal to keep the party up, that simply makes you a healer.

If a healer is actually opposed to DPSing when there's downtime then they're incompetent. Healers heal when necessary, they DPS when there's no need to heal. That's how the game works, and I see this as something that'll never change because that's the concept they're built on. I'll never understand this mindset of "If i'm expected to DPS as a healer then I should've just rolled a DPS class/job instead" when all of the roles already have so much opportunities and tools to DPS. You're just putting all of that to waste.

[Tint]

If a healer is actually opposed to DPSing when there's downtime then they're incompetent. Healers heal when necessary, they DPS when there's no need to heal. That's how the game works, and I see this as something that'll never change because that's the concept they're built on.

my problem is the downtime is almost 100%. when i am spending more time dpsing than healing than i think this is bad game design. especially with the lack of accuracy and mana.

i was in there at day one, full blind run with minimum ilvl option and it already was a joke.

yes, a healer is meant to dps in his downtimes, i can agree to that. but i dislike the amount of downtimes. in the 2.x era i couldn't stay all day in cleric, so something HAS changed...

[dinnertime]

my problem is the downtime is almost 100%. when i am spending more time dpsing than healing than i think this is bad game design. especially with the lack of accuracy and mana.

i was in there at day one, full blind run with minimum ilvl option and it already was a joke.

yes, a healer is meant to dps in his downtimes, i can agree to that. but i dislike the amount of downtimes. in the 2.x era i couldn't stay all day in cleric.

I'll give you accuracy but you shouldn't be burning all your MP on DPSing at all. But yeah having so much downtime from healing is definitely because of the tank changes.

I may have been a little harsh about what I've said though that healers should be DPS and that i'm rubbing it on people who are opposed to it. Like Kallera said, it's something optional for healers to do but I just believe not doing it at all is just incompetence on the healer's part. Still, you're free not to contribute to DPS.
I actually enjoy DPSing as a healer and keeping the party up simultaneously so I dunno why others can't feel the same, honestly.

[Kaurie]

You're wrong if you think raids, trials etc. also need minimal healing like in dungeons, especially something like savage raids and Sephirot EX which is such a healer-intensive fight during the adds phases. And predictable? During enrage, sure, but you're so incorrect about this.

I am not sure if I am misunderstanding you, but are you saying that damage in raids is not predictable? I agree, Seph EX requires a lot more healing than dungeons. Despite this, I have no issue getting in damage consistently throughout the entire thing. I've been healing in a raiding environment in FFXIV for a long time - I mention this as it sounds like you think I am new to the game or new to healing or something. I've personally healed in T1, T2, T4, T5, T6, T9, T10, T11, T12, T13, A1S, A2S, Garuda Ex, Titan Ex, Ifrit Ex, Leviathan Ex, Ramuh Ex, Shiva Ex, Ravana Ex, Bismarck Ex, Sephirot Ex, Thordan Ex, Moogle Ex.

If nobody is taking damage or suffering detrimental effects in the expert dungeons then that could mean the party is good at avoiding all these bad things and the tank is good at mitigating damage with their own cooldowns, giving an easier life for the healer. If you actually want them to suffer more damage and debuffs just so you can have the satisfaction of healing them more then feel free to ask them to intentionally get hit by all the mechanics.

Well that would be quite idiotic.

Healers are meant to DPS during downtime anyway. I mean, they were given Cleric Stance and were given offensive skills at 52-60, especially WHM with the most given like Aero III, Assize and Stone III.
Both healing and contributing to DPS means you're helping the party even more. Lacking in one means you're not playing the role as efficiently. It's been mentioned in the Novice Hall itself that healers should be casting damaging magicks if the party is fine so nobody can't really deny that healers weren't meant to DPS.

I am not sure the relevance of this as directed to me. Or was just the first half of your post directed at me? If this part is, then I believe you didn't read my posts entirety or misunderstood something along the way. As a healer, I have DPSed in every encounter. I understand the game is designed with this in mind, but that doesn't make me think that the design isn't bad.

No other roles have such flexibility to heal other than the healer themselves. The tank can but it's not as efficient. You heal to keep the party up, that simply makes you a healer.

?

If a healer is actually opposed to DPSing when there's downtime then they're incompetent. Healers heal when necessary, they DPS when there's no need to heal. That's how the game works, and I see this as something that'll never change because that's the concept they're built on. I'll never understand this mindset of "If i'm expected to DPS as a healer then I should've just rolled a DPS class/job instead" when all of the roles already have so much opportunities and tools to DPS. You're just putting all of that to waste.

Unfortunate truths here.