Bahamut and Eikons

[Anonymoose]

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**POOF** What!? Where am ... EIKONS? Ahhhh, fff—

I do believe that Allagans referred to primals as Eikons, and that's why the Garlean Empire calls primals Eikons.

Correct. The Allagans came up with the term, and the Garleans (who emulate the Allagans in as many ways as they can) figured they should start doing the same. However, there are some notable differences between what we call primals and what the Allagans called eikons. In their arrogance, Garlemald just seems to have not questioned whether they were using it as accurately as they could be.

With 3.2, we've seen confirmation that they're not that different, or even that unfamiliar. Sephirot even had interred tree-like beastmen like Bahamut's interred Meracydians. Honestly, to me, it seems like Eikon is the catch-all term for man-made gods (literally icons), whereas primals are specifically the set we're seeing today, with the difference being that the primals of today are based on the primordial forces of nature - the six elements. The eikons have a much broader set of origins and themes. (And, of course, something weird is up the rules and influence of worship.)

I also remember somewhere that Eikons are considered 'lowly' 'primals'.

I haven't seen this claim before, but it seems kind of odd. Can any of the primals stand up to any of the eikons we've encountered? Compare Ifrit to The Warring Triad. Putting down Garuda was child's play compared to even understanding how to deal with Odin. I suppose compared to the concept of one of the six primordial facets of the crystal, a concept like a sentient sword seems kind of simple. Perhaps in that light, one could see it that way. Still, it strikes me as an odd claim.

Could Bahamut being consider an Eikon for the allagans?

That's an interesting question, actually. One one hand, I would imagine so. Eikon is Allag's word and Bahamut isn't really a primordial force of nature so much as the resurrected shade of a Celestial Dragon. If Allag used eikon as an umbrella term, it seems only natural that's what they'd call him. Garlemald (incorrectly) uses the term interchangeably, but there seems to be some distinction to be made. At this point, though, that distinction looks to be a rather pedantic one. As far as modern Eorzeans are concerned, the term "Elder Primal" fits best until we know better. But yeah, it's possible. Odin has been called both.

Adding, why Odin could not end of being another of this big allagan "batteries" or "experimentations"?

The eikons were numerous; their fates are probably just as diverse. Hints abound that, after at least 10,000 years of the Astral/Umbral cycle, dozens if not hundreds of these beings are slumbering in the aetherial sea. And who knows how many were somehow preserved or might yet be resurrected. Belias was reborn from the memories of a job crystal, but thankfully only enough for one guy to make one egi (so far).

Odin was trapped in a crystal by an Allagan hero who perhaps didn't have access to that kind of high technology at the time. Perhaps it was after the Calamity - they do call him "The Last of the Allagans". Don't forget, either, that Yugiri stated that godlike beings do exist in Othard (the very same ones that gave the Empire so much trouble). So far removed from the modern Eorzean trend of representing the elements, who knows what they are. Perhaps they're more "eikon" than not.

I'm hoping for more than "The Allagans did it." for his origin story, though. The sword is said to have come from an Au Ra, after all.

Its not interesting that the all this powerfull beings <...> all came from Meracyadia?

For now, I'm chalking this up to coincidence. Azys Lla was a direct result of Allag - under the resurrected Xande - trying their hardest to subjugate the one landmass that resisted their rule. It makes sense that most things from around that time (including Dalamud) would be somehow related to Meracydia, whether it be the dragons of Tiamat and Bahamut's brood, or the beastmen that lived amongst them, or even (gods forbid) from the wandering races themselves.

But did they hate, love, or were they indifferent to these forces of aetheric nature?

My gil's on hate, mostly. Think about how eikons come about; in a word: desperation. Every primal we've ever seen was the result of a desperate plea for deliverance from fear. These are entities of faith and prayer and salvation. Allag had no use for that. They had gods, and they abandoned them for technology, seemingly without a step in between for actually trying to call them. They were confident and powerful; they inspired the rise of eikons in the societies they conquered - the same as Garlemald. In turn, of course, Allag harnessed them for power and the Summoners. But the people even turned on the Summoners in the end. Until we have any hints to the contrary, I would imagine that (to the average Allagan) eikon was synonymous with rebellion. Though maybe the rebellious factions had some use for them...

Hmmm.