To be fair, I wouldn't say people are justify it, but simply explaining why it happens. Unfortunately, there isn't really an efficient way to stop it. You can't ban based on time because you run the risk of banning innocent players. Regardless, it's just not an area the devs should focus on given win trading doesn't hurt anyone. Most people who do it aren't going to play PvP otherwise. This is why making PvP a ranked system is better. The reward is essentially meaningless to anyone not actively playing. Sure, some will still 'cheat', but not like before.
pvp in this case is special, because square enix tries to copy blizzard ranking system (e-sports) and force players to have them branded with their "skill". Thats why players do not like to get branded as bad or worse and try to find a way to show others they are "good" players. There are many reasons for this behaviour, but to have a public branding is a very bad decision from square enix. Special because you can cheat it in ffxiv way too easily! Square enix have to realise their dungeonfinder is not at same level as blizzards matchmaker... and even if: did they ask in blizzard community those who do not like that system? there are a lot...
How to make a community toxic? square enix can teach you!
I wont win trade. Pvp is too fun to stain like that. Lazy people.
Not really. This "win trading" as people are putting is nothing more then boosting. Getting 100 wins through illegitimate ways impacts the rankings that SE has implemented for The Feast, granted it's not really a huge impact since they will be reset each season. Boosting still leads to devalued views on content, which in turn leads to less people actively participating. Typically games that use seasons and standings usually match players with or around the same skill level to ensure quality matches. When a player boosts for their levels and go and play normally after obtaining whatever they wanted, it puts the team in disadvantage having to carry someone who claims they're rank 50 but in actuality they're rank 23. I don't think The Feast and SE use standings like this but this is just one example of why win trading or boosting is bad.
As for buying a clear, you aren't messing with ladders or global rankings, since raiding and dungeon runs aren't rank or timed for completion, nor are you being matched with random players when it comes to buying a clear.
Last edited by Jetstream_Fox; 03-11-2016 at 08:22 PM.
Win trading isn't affecting season ranking and rewards though. People who queue together have their own ranking, against others who queue together, who get no special rewards from the season depending on their rank. The people win trading for the mount aren't getting any additional rewards, and generally just stay in one language queue, get their mount, and never touch PvP again.
The way SE designed PvP is, you only get ranks to get season rewards if you queue by yourself with entirely random people and that's it. Double that, for a rank qualifier match, that HAS to be done solo, so if you somehow cheat and can't step up to the people who actually earned their spot in a qualifying match, you better git gud or accept your win trading just made you a sparkly piece of trash in PvP. I'm not saying the system is infallible, but really it is designed so that win traders will only get that mount that anyone can get from 200 wins, regardless of skill, and that's it.
ETA: I just don't see how it's a problem when the win farming gives someone credit in a ranking system that specifically gives no rewards because SE is aware this happens. I do think, however, that Triad and Verminion trading are negative because everyone has the same ranking pool and their laziness/cheating is stopping someone from getting a reward, who is actually putting in the work and abiding by the intended spirit of the competition.
Last edited by LadyVal; 03-11-2016 at 09:01 PM.
Not really. It's just that most western people read it as such. As far as I remember, what was said regarding win trading in TT tournaments was, slightly paraphrased: "This isn't against the ToS, so it's not a bannable offense, but please don't do this." (Emphasis mine.)
Unfortunately, SE's expectation that people respect their wishes is not as valid in our western cultures as it is in theirs =/
(Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in Japanese culture, so if anyone is and disagrees with my interpretation, please say so. Still, I'd argue that saying 'please don't do this' is more or less the opposite of 'this is okay to do'.)
This is the proof that pvp is a waste of the developers time. All it is being a mini game and joke that people will take the least resistance to get the pvp for glamour. I wish they would give such beautiful gear to more pve oriented events.
5v5 premade match should only be for custom game, ranked should always be automated matchmaking,
all rewards should only be for matchmade game, not for custom premade
can you imagine if LoL/DOTA 2 allow custom game to affect ranked ladder? the game would be dead within weeks
Well that's not entirely true in these cases. The devs/GMs/SE are the ones who have the final say on any matter that goes on within the game. If it weren't the case, there wouldn't be any bans done for whatever reasons. We, the players, determine the norms/etiquette/etc within the grounds of what the devs are fine with.
Win-trading always hurts the content it happens in, no matter what it might be. The question is "in what way?" and to answer that, you just need to look at frequency and player wants. If it truly does become a norm for people to win trade to get what they want, the content itself becomes tarnished by the frequent acceptance that "cheating gets you what you (the general community) want"... it may not get what you specifically want, but others, sure.
Morale is a huge contributing factor to want of participation and, eventually, low morale absolutely destroys said content to nearly irreparable levels unless devs step in to counter it with punishment. I'm speaking from first-hand experience from that one from many years ago, and honestly, so should anyone who wanted to participate in any tournament in this game.
Let's go with WoW for a minute. Many years ago, there was no function to report players as AFK in PvP. Many players (myself included) ended up just AFKing battlegrounds because of how low morale was to even play. Once it became widely known that you could just AFK "win" your way to gear, nearly everyone was taking advantage of that. Alterac Valley became an AFK-fest for both sides. 40v40 turned into 5v8 participating players, if even that sometimes, with everyone else AFK waiting out the win/loss. Basically, whoever had the most active players won... hopefully. This was usually Horde though, because of how much of a joke the objective boss is for AV. You could practically solo him, but that's just going off topic now lol. An example of when bad behavior unpunished becomes a problem. Some battlegroups were better than others... mines was definitely one of the worst.
Now if we look at FFXIV, SE is rather sloppy about their attempts to curb bad behavior. Usually it's because of execution, otherwise it's because of laxed priorities once the players have forgotten (generally a couple weeks after a "fix"). The only existing means of keeping such content as TT and LoV relevant long-term is riddled with win-trading. To practically everyone here, that alone was the primary reason why most of us stopped bothering, despite actually wanting to compete. It became common knowledge that, unless you cheated, you were not going to win or even rank. Even with LoV and their miserable attempt at mitigating win-trades, it just failed horribly and even backfired to punish/hurt players within the system that played legitimately (if I recall right, the higher rank you were naturally, the lower points you'd get... basically, the better you are, the worse you'll do).
Maybe the ranking system for this is enough to sweep win-trading under the rug for it... but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if players, soon, discover a means to win trade here for said rank rewards. If that comes to be, then you can bet that people will suddenly think "what's the point in even trying?", especially if it ends up being to the degree that win-trading obtains highest ranks lol.
You're absolutely right on the interpretation, but when you're in a position of control, you generally don't let people be bad if you can rightfully punish them for being that way. That'd be like if our law enforcement did not actually have punishments for crimes committed, but instead just told people "please don't do this", when referring to murder/theft/assault/etc. I'm fairly confident I'd have stolen quite a lot and killed a few people by now if such a thing was the accepted norm. People are going to be bad, one way or another, but you need to dissuade the vast majority by having (and most importantly: actually going through with) consequences for their actions.
Last edited by Welsper59; 03-12-2016 at 05:39 AM.
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