So how about them new dungeons? (Layout and difficulty)

[Kurogaea]

Deja vu I'm certain, though it can't be ignored no matter how big the nostalgia value and pretty scenery will keep you occupied (for about a week).

First off, WOOO look at that awesome upside down tower! Gee I hope I would be able to actually climb down and explore it!

Mmm just how I like em

Oh! I can't forget the Lost City of Ampadoor right? Man this place is amazing! Its all ancient and filled with mysterious stuff!

Oh don't worry, there's plenty of invisble walls so you won't go off track. You know how silly these casuals can be right? Hahahahahaa....

...........................

You know, it could just be me, but when I see a floating upside down tower I don't think "I guess I should start by walking along these straight paths with monsters and bounce pads at the end of them till I reach the last one that warps me to the LOWEST PART OF THE TOWER" ....Whats the point of that giant tower if your just gonna have me fly to the 200th floor, in which I friggen hope because to me it seemed like 4 floors if you ask me. Oh right lemme correct that: you walk across floating platforms using jumpads to get to the others, fly through the castle door (Doesn't look like an entrance when you get through) about 4 floating platforms descending, go through a door warping you into some realistic upside down corridor (now it looks like a castle interior) down 2 slopes of those, and your at the last boss.

The only thing keeping that dungeon as long as it is is the number of adds they throw at you after you defeat one set. You know SE, if you want to give us a gauntlet just give us one, make it the Gladiator Arena in Uldah or something.

Now to LCoA hm, I feel like I'm running the same thing as before but cooler bosses. In which case its still a dull rollercoaster with some pretty neat loops, no turns. Not much to say here that hasn't already said before. Its a straight path, nothing your unfamiliar with, and your bound to get the boss fights down packed on the first try (though like I said, they're pretty fun). I think boss fights is something SE has gotten better at as of late, though that discussion is for another thread >_>.

Well I know some typical answers to why this is happening, in which there is no excuse for it be like this in a subscription based game that takes an average time of 3 months to make new content, which isn't bad but not with these "dungeons":

1. Catering for those that don't have time in the playerbase.

Well I'd like to ask why your playing an MMO where you spend most of your time doing redundant things such as gardening, grinding, questing, fighting the same bosses for gear over and over again just to be locked out for a week. You obviously have time to manage all that crap so find time in your "busy schedule" and make time for some engaging content. -_-

2. Too hard for casuals

Someone is friggen trolling you if they actually said that in response to more complex dungeons. If these casuals can make their way through Ifrit, Titan, Garuda Shiva, Leviathan nms etc, and do all the dungeons thus far, then why can't they navigate a new dungeon with more paths and choices of progression? Your saying these people never played a game before?? BS, your lying, and you should be ashamed. Casual doesn't mean "idiot". Not being an average player doesn't make you unable to assess situations to progress through unknown places. Not to mention how child friendly our map system is (which btw is completely insulting how easy it is to map dungeons now) and you have 4 people with you. So no, that's no excuse.

3. The dungeons are made for clearing quickly like for relic quests and constant replays, complex dungeons would only make that more difficult.

Well yeah it would, because the game would then be adding something great to some god awful system like tomes, though it could be fixed obviously. Increase the tomes achieved by a greater number than normal dungeons. As for roulletes and special quests like relic, just have them on a different topic of their own. They get their own roulettes, own special quests and the ones crunching for time everyday can just run the smaller dungeons.

All I ask for when a new dungeon comes out is, "please make it feel like an actual dungeon. Not a tour ride with monsters and no pit stops." -_-
Welp, thats all I have to say about that I guess. It took 2 days to run that new content, and it didn't get funner running it more than once. And it still doesn't. -_-

[Kaurie]

They should just get rid of the hallways. Warp you into a singular circular room (has to be a circle) and then have mobs and bosses just spawn on top of us! it would take less dev time!

ok /s

I agree mostly; however, I found these two dungeons much more interesting than the last 12 or so dungeons (Dusk Vigil to Arborteum excluding aetherochemical). I do find they tuned them way too easy, which is weird.

it's been said 10000x though. New dungeon styles, not just hallways of trash to a boss x3.

[Saccharin]

I do find they tuned them way too easy, which is weird.

it's been said 10000x though. New dungeon styles, not just hallways of trash to a boss x3.

You're ilevel is quite high I'm guessing. The tuning will be for people who are vastly under your ilevel.

[Kaurie]

You're ilevel is quite high I'm guessing. The tuning will be for people who are vastly under your ilevel.

These dungeons are easier on release at max ilvl of the patch before than any of the previous patch releases that I have personally experienced. I did quit for about a year and missed releases of like 2.1-2.3, but everything since 2.4 this at least holds true. Sastasha Hard, Qarn Hard, Keeper of the Lake, Amdapor Hard, Wanderers Palace Hard, Neverreap, Fractals, Pharos hard and Arboretum were all much more difficult on release with the previous patches max ilvl than these two dungeons are at 210.

Can't imagine how laughable they will be at 230 or 240 ilvl. I already don't even heal tanks on the average pull.

[RaineAmorie]

snip

All of this. Selene has been handling the healing quite well tbh. Way easier on release, hell I've been telling tanks to just pull what they want since the 2nd run.

I do however enjoy the new dungeons, and don't mind doing my daily (for now). I'm a huge fan of frogs so I can't tell you how glad I was to step into Antitower. Lost City is amazing music so that's a drop in that hat. Seems like they put a little more effort into making them less of a bore.

[Kurogaea]

You're ilevel is quite high I'm guessing. The tuning will be for people who are vastly under your ilevel.

Enemies may have different HP Bars, though it still doesn't change the way you go about things. I can give one mob the hp of titan ex. It won't be harder, it'd just take even longer.

[Saccharin]

Enemies may have different HP Bars, though it still doesn't change the way you go about things. I can give one mob the hp of titan ex. It won't be harder, it'd just take even longer.

It's not all about hit points. As gear scales damage does of course but so does healing, damage mitigation and all of that nerfs an encounter quite hard.

[Ayuhra]

They should just get rid of the hallways. Warp you into a singular circular room (has to be a circle) and then have mobs and bosses just spawn on top of us! it would take less dev time!

Okay I know you're joking but I would actually like to see one (1) dungeon like this. I am remembering Trial of the Champion and that was a pretty fun place in WoW (as was the raid-Trial of the Crusader).

[Noxifer]

They should just get rid of the hallways. Warp you into a singular circular room (has to be a circle) and then have mobs and bosses just spawn on top of us! it would take less dev time!

Okay I know you're joking but I would actually like to see one (1) dungeon like this. I am remembering Trial of the Champion and that was a pretty fun place in WoW (as was the raid-Trial of the Crusader).

*cough* T4 would like to say hello. Well, fair enough -- that was only the waves of trash, none of the bosses (unless you count dreadnoughts as bosses), but... the principle's the same? =D
But yeah, we have raids that drop you straight into the circular arena to fight a boss ^^; We don't need that 'quality' to invade dungeons as well.

I'll agree that where as last patch with Arbor etc I definitely felt like I had to try and be more cautious until I was able to farm some new gear, this patch I came in already able to pretty much heal the whole dungeon with HoT's so long as everyone else is doing their job correctly. I think I was around item level 208 when they dropped and its only getting easier as I re-gear.

...I was somewhere between i190-195 when they were released, and didn't have an issue with anything. Our healer was around there, too. So I agree that they're tuned quite a bit lower compared to the dungeons of previous patches (Never-bleeep- anyone?) ^^;

I do like them both better than the ones from the previous patch -- well, I did enjoy Arboretum, too, but not quite as much as these two. I can't quite put my finger on why I enjoy these three dungeons, but... Maybe it has something to do with the party needing to work together a lot more.

[Critical-Limit]

Enemies may have different HP Bars, though it still doesn't change the way you go about things. I can give one mob the hp of titan ex. It won't be harder, it'd just take even longer.

This is why I think they should focus on making trash interesting and complicated.

Have mobs use more moves than "generic" AoE's.

I don't care how but if I saw a mob use "cover on a mob about to die" it would make us think twice about downing the most dangerous trash mob first and we might attack the weakest to bait cover to a less threatening mob.

Or a mob that buffs other mobs and tries to kite us requiring stuns and binds to help kill it easier.

I wish trash just made me think and got my brain out of auto pilot.