add an in game parser please!!!

[DarkB]

I did not reply to your post in a quote but I directly answered your enrage dilemma pages back. SE caught a bad rep in their first MMO because players refused to set limitations on their own game time, regardless of that nifty "please don't forget your work and family" message when logging in. Pandemonium Warden caused a group of people to fight it for 18 hours straight with no win while incurring some ailments along the way prompting WoW to attack SE in the form of a yahoo article which went viral.

Just to clarify this even further. The mistake on that part was SE for releasing a content that intentionally was too hard and people took hours to fight. I could say the same for the actual content we have now. Savage. Put for example a group that has low dps but they are stubborn and keep going for 18 hours, its the same concept.

The mistake is from SE not from players. DPS check/enrage is bad for another reason on top of the one i discussed. It creates division. As i said before, it limits and exclude players (who payed for the game like everyone else playing) who cant pass the dps check (and one major reason of this is lack of tools from SE to improve your dps, so whos to blame?). Nobody subbing should be intentionally excluded from enjoying the content they payed for.
Let me get this straight since i bet many people here dont get this point.

IF you create a game that EVERYONE pay with money to play, you SHOULD make every content in it, cleareable/enjoyable/playable by everyone who gives you money.
By introducing fights with DPS check and enrage, you push and exclude a lot of people from enjoying and clearing the content they payed for. On top of this, you dont help them with an ingame parser (ps users), and you implement a dps check? how are people supposed to check their dps and performance? This is a contraddiction in game design.

Support to what i am saying is Yoshi itself many times admitted savage was too hard and tuned it down. I still believe that many players in here have issues on dps checks simply because the game doesnt help you at all into getting better.
So untill you have a very solid background and tools inside the game, you should avoid this whole dps check/enrage. THis has nothing to do with being in favor or against the dps check thing. Im just saying if you introduce something that put your gameplay on trial, you should give players the ability to fully learn > improve. Not everyone has this at the moment, and again its wrong.

and again before anybody jumps to my throat, im a very well known hardcore raider with dps and parser mindset. I just find very annoying the SE position on this. And i agree with people pretending a decent tool for analyzing| parsing their numbers, simply because dps checks are in game.
You dont want to give people a parsing tool? dont put dps check. Simple. The moment you put these in game, you MUST support it.

[Voltyblast]

You dont want to give people a parsing tool? dont put dps check. Simple. The moment you put these in game, you MUST support it.

I completely agree with this: there are so many other ways to make hard fights where the dps isn't required. Having SOME dps checks are ok, but making every fight a dps check isn't what i call fun. I'm no battle programmer or anything but I remember enjoying the old raids (not in ffxiv specifically) for a good reason: it encouraged tactical knowledge and awareness rather than blunt dps checks. And 1-hit deaths.

I mean come on, Karazhan (yes the worst mmorpg of all time yadda yadda) had a chess battle and I loved that raid so much i would pug every week for it (yes, it was possible still), just for the fun factor and because i genuinely loved that raid for how well designed it was. I never felt frustrated while doing that and i don't really recall any dps check in there (if it did, it was so well hidden I never noticed.).

If they want dps checks as the main gimmick for the game, I'm fine with that too: I won't touch any raid content as a result and avoid the struggle of even attempting it. But as DarkB said: if you put dps checks, support a dps parser. If you don't put it, think of something else for making fights challenging. Dps checks aren't the only tactics to go for!

[Ayuhra]

I completely agree with this: there are so many other ways to make hard fights where the dps isn't required. Having SOME dps checks are ok, but making every fight a dps check isn't what i call fun. I'm no battle programmer or anything but I remember enjoying the old raids (not in ffxiv specifically) for a good reason: it encouraged tactical knowledge and awareness rather than blunt dps checks. And 1-hit deaths.

I mean come on, Karazhan (yes the worst mmorpg of all time yadda yadda) had a chess battle and I loved that raid so much i would pug every week for it (yes, it was possible still), just for the fun factor and because i genuinely loved that raid for how well designed it was. I never felt frustrated while doing that and i don't really recall any dps check in there (if it did, it was so well hidden I never noticed.).

If they want dps checks as the main gimmick for the game, I'm fine with that too: I won't touch any raid content. But as DarkB said: if you put dps checks, support a dps parser. If you don't put it, think of something else for making fights challenging. Dps checks aren't the only tactics to go for!

I agree with this. I enjoy fun mechanics over dps checks.

My biggest problem with this game is endgame stuff seems to be focused around strict mechanical precision in a strict rotation so you can beat an enrage timer. Mechanics that are present are usually (not always) based on stepping out of bad things and failure to do so is a one hit KO (at least there is not a limit on battle rezzes in this game outside the mana cost). I find that more stress inducing than enjoyable.

I would love to see more fun mechanics. World of WarCraft has always easier rotations, fewer one shot kills (they still exist but aren't the focal point of most bosses) but much more varied and interesting raid encounters as a result. Karazhan is fantastic. I was also very fond of Ulduar.

My dream would be to see rotations streamlined, fewer one shot mechanics and bigger, more varied boss encounters to provide the actual challenge. Less "robot precision" more "think on your feet".

Until we see a shift to that sort of design, however, it seems a shame to not give damage dealers tools they need to actually approach the encounters the way they're supposed to. Dummies and similar are fine...provided you ignore that my class exists. Meet the Black Mage. We ignite the atmosphere on dummies but when actual mechanics force us to move like any other class our dps can plummet to sometimes catastrophic levels (I HAD A FRACTION OF A SECOND LEFT ON BLIZZ IV BUT ENOCHIAN FELL OFF WHY DOES-*incoherent hour long tangent*).

I know my own numbers because reasons. I have never and would never throw numbers at anyone else but to me live evaluation is much more accurate and important than the dummy due to how drastically different my class's performance can be on a dummy vs a real encounter.

[WeekendSoja]

"Must" is pretty strong, it's preferred to have this tool for the current end-game situation but absotelutely having it is another thing.

I'll take your point on 18 hours but the aspect people tend to forget is the enrage/Insta-kill mechanics deter from a consecutive run. So the PW fight was 18 hours of non-stop zerging, buffing, alliance switching, potion popping, focus testing endurance run of nasty, which still was not beaten. Whereas these enrages, although discouraging, promote breaks, moments to eat, moments to use the bathroom, ect.

Those that were apart of that 18 hour non-stop slug fest reported not eating, drinking or using the restroom outside of the casual members of the ls, so just a guess at the matter, at least 6-8 people, on their decision alone, was like I need to stay here and do absolutely nothing else but focus on this fight.

[WeekendSoja]

SE is definitely not the first to build a super boss, but haters gonna hate and the big franchise SE got the dirtiest and biggest publicity for it. There are people who would tell tall tells of Everquest and needing to assemble 500 people just to kill one thing.

This is definitely a two way street. Decisions were made on both sides and sadly SE took the blame and incorporated ways to deter ridiculousness.

tl;dr parsers can be awesome to have, people's decisions not always so awesome.

[Erys]

IF you create a game that EVERYONE pay with money to play, you SHOULD make every content in it, cleareable/enjoyable/playable by everyone who gives you money.

So no hard or expert modes in any other games, because not everyone can clear Dante Must Die, Revengeance, Heroic (or whatever is hard in WoW) or even competitive leagues in CS. Because everyone has to be able to win! YAY! SAFE SPACES!

[DarkB]

So no hard or expert modes in any other games, because not everyone can clear Dante Must Die, Revengeance, Heroic (or whatever is hard in WoW) or even competitive leagues in CS. Because everyone has to be able to win! YAY! SAFE SPACES!

Way to extrapolate text out of context without even bothering to grasp concepts explained for the 3th time now.
I explained that its related to the amount of people NON clearing a content due to being too hard because of dps check, this was RECOGNIZED by the developers themselves which agreed on what we are all saying and tuned them down. So yeah to their eyes, everyone has to be able to win, on top of that especially cause you are paying for it.

Not giving people tools to improve > fail dps check > fail to clear content. Comprende?

[Erys]

Snippety snip

I did understand everything you said, but what I quoted seemed so silly that it totally discredited you imo. The same way "taking it out of context" will discredit me in your opinion.

And again in my opinion, not everyone must be able to win everything. You pay for a game, if you are good enough you'll beat the hardest content it has. Was Gordias a fuck up? Probably, but the same rule applies. You dedicate time to it until you perfect it and clear it. The thrive of the best, I haven't cleared SephEx or Gordias A2-3-4S. I have to improve and I will thrive. So should you and every other player.

[Yahallo]

Way to extrapolate text out of context without even bothering to grasp concepts explained for the 3th time now.
I explained that its related to the amount of people NON clearing a content due to being too hard because of dps check, this was RECOGNIZED by the developers themselves which agreed on what we are all saying and tuned them down. So yeah to their eyes, everyone has to be able to win, on top of that especially cause you are paying for it.

Not giving people tools to improve > fail dps check > fail to clear content. Comprende?

The game would be worse without DPS checks; you just need the right balance of mechanics and DPS checks and A3S was simply over tuned (it also suffered from a giant difficulty gap from A2S). Yes, they should have a parser, that part is obvious. However, I don't get your hatred of DPS checks. You say they create a division because people can't meet them, then wouldn't the same be true for mechanics? Plenty of people get blacklisted from groups for repeatedly messing up mechanics, just like how people can get blacklisted from groups for low DPS.

All current content is perfectly clear-able by everyone who pays, they just have to put in the effort develop the necessary skill for it, that includes both meeting DPS checks and learning mechanics.

Enjoyment is another thing that is probably impossible. There are some people who simply do not want to do those content because they only enjoy the game on a casual basis so it is impossible to make all content enjoyable to everyone as there will be people who dislike content being easy and there will be people who dislike content being hard. There are some people who simply do not wish to try in this game, content should not be made clear-able for them just so they can get carried by people who do put in effort. Some content can be made clear-able by people who try but are casual plays and thus have not put in the time needed for the more difficult content. The more difficult content should not be clear-able by people who don't put in the necessary effort for them as it would otherwise no longer be difficult. Difficult content by their definition requires people to put in time and effort, something that more casual players may not have.

Not all content is for everyone, but there can be at least a bit of content for everyone.

[Paladinleeds]

snip

You pay for Dark Souls and look at how hard that is. Should Dark Souls be tuned down too to make it easier for players and go against everything it stands for? What about Wings of Vi? Sorry, but not all content is clearable by all plays. I haven't beaten any Savage yet. D'ya know why, because I'm not good enough for the game, that's why. I don't expect them to nerf the content to make it easier just so I can clear. Here's the thing, I should just GET GOOD. If I can't (I volunteer a lot, so time is a premium to me), then I just accept that content isn't for me. Doesn't stop me trying. But I don't want every single victory spoonfed to me. You make the game too easy so everyone can clear, the hardcore players will leave. I'm actually of the camp that story content isn't hard enough.