add an in game parser please!!!

[Kaurie]

SCH dps is at something like 60% of what a dps can do though. And that's by staying 100% of the time not healing at all (which happens only rarely).

I know haha, but seriously this is a common occurence :\ It's 60% single target though, SCH can have great AoE.

DRG is the only dps which can cut his enmity in half. Quelling, smoke screen and shadewalker aren't that meaningful (when people even use them at all...) over a full 5-13 minutes long fight.
SMNs are a bit trickier because of the pet, but they still should have at least more hate than the SCH at equal gear.

I don't think you should underestimate quelling, smoke screen and shadewalker! I think everyone should have more hate than SCH, it just isn't always the case.

You hit the nail on the head here:

On a general basis though, if you have less enmity than a sch, you suck and you get your scold

It's just sad that so many people fit into that category

[AlphaDragoon]

Once people use it more than when being begged to (oh, just like goad /s ) I'll count them. Like, seriously. I never see NIN use these unless they are in serious progression mode.

Dunno what kinda chump NINs you're used to but I use Shadewalker and Smoke Screen even in 4-man dungeons. There's no reason not to.

[DarkB]

I did not reply to your post in a quote but I directly answered your enrage dilemma pages back. SE caught a bad rep in their first MMO because players refused to set limitations on their own game time, regardless of that nifty "please don't forget your work and family" message when logging in. Pandemonium Warden caused a group of people to fight it for 18 hours straight with no win while incurring some ailments along the way prompting WoW to attack SE in the form of a yahoo article which went viral.

Just to clarify this even further. The mistake on that part was SE for releasing a content that intentionally was too hard and people took hours to fight. I could say the same for the actual content we have now. Savage. Put for example a group that has low dps but they are stubborn and keep going for 18 hours, its the same concept.

The mistake is from SE not from players. DPS check/enrage is bad for another reason on top of the one i discussed. It creates division. As i said before, it limits and exclude players (who payed for the game like everyone else playing) who cant pass the dps check (and one major reason of this is lack of tools from SE to improve your dps, so whos to blame?). Nobody subbing should be intentionally excluded from enjoying the content they payed for.
Let me get this straight since i bet many people here dont get this point.

IF you create a game that EVERYONE pay with money to play, you SHOULD make every content in it, cleareable/enjoyable/playable by everyone who gives you money.
By introducing fights with DPS check and enrage, you push and exclude a lot of people from enjoying and clearing the content they payed for. On top of this, you dont help them with an ingame parser (ps users), and you implement a dps check? how are people supposed to check their dps and performance? This is a contraddiction in game design.

Support to what i am saying is Yoshi itself many times admitted savage was too hard and tuned it down. I still believe that many players in here have issues on dps checks simply because the game doesnt help you at all into getting better.
So untill you have a very solid background and tools inside the game, you should avoid this whole dps check/enrage. THis has nothing to do with being in favor or against the dps check thing. Im just saying if you introduce something that put your gameplay on trial, you should give players the ability to fully learn > improve. Not everyone has this at the moment, and again its wrong.

and again before anybody jumps to my throat, im a very well known hardcore raider with dps and parser mindset. I just find very annoying the SE position on this. And i agree with people pretending a decent tool for analyzing| parsing their numbers, simply because dps checks are in game.
You dont want to give people a parsing tool? dont put dps check. Simple. The moment you put these in game, you MUST support it.

[Voltyblast]

You dont want to give people a parsing tool? dont put dps check. Simple. The moment you put these in game, you MUST support it.

I completely agree with this: there are so many other ways to make hard fights where the dps isn't required. Having SOME dps checks are ok, but making every fight a dps check isn't what i call fun. I'm no battle programmer or anything but I remember enjoying the old raids (not in ffxiv specifically) for a good reason: it encouraged tactical knowledge and awareness rather than blunt dps checks. And 1-hit deaths.

I mean come on, Karazhan (yes the worst mmorpg of all time yadda yadda) had a chess battle and I loved that raid so much i would pug every week for it (yes, it was possible still), just for the fun factor and because i genuinely loved that raid for how well designed it was. I never felt frustrated while doing that and i don't really recall any dps check in there (if it did, it was so well hidden I never noticed.).

If they want dps checks as the main gimmick for the game, I'm fine with that too: I won't touch any raid content as a result and avoid the struggle of even attempting it. But as DarkB said: if you put dps checks, support a dps parser. If you don't put it, think of something else for making fights challenging. Dps checks aren't the only tactics to go for!

[WeekendSoja]

"Must" is pretty strong, it's preferred to have this tool for the current end-game situation but absotelutely having it is another thing.

I'll take your point on 18 hours but the aspect people tend to forget is the enrage/Insta-kill mechanics deter from a consecutive run. So the PW fight was 18 hours of non-stop zerging, buffing, alliance switching, potion popping, focus testing endurance run of nasty, which still was not beaten. Whereas these enrages, although discouraging, promote breaks, moments to eat, moments to use the bathroom, ect.

Those that were apart of that 18 hour non-stop slug fest reported not eating, drinking or using the restroom outside of the casual members of the ls, so just a guess at the matter, at least 6-8 people, on their decision alone, was like I need to stay here and do absolutely nothing else but focus on this fight.

[WeekendSoja]

SE is definitely not the first to build a super boss, but haters gonna hate and the big franchise SE got the dirtiest and biggest publicity for it. There are people who would tell tall tells of Everquest and needing to assemble 500 people just to kill one thing.

This is definitely a two way street. Decisions were made on both sides and sadly SE took the blame and incorporated ways to deter ridiculousness.

tl;dr parsers can be awesome to have, people's decisions not always so awesome.

[Ayuhra]

I completely agree with this: there are so many other ways to make hard fights where the dps isn't required. Having SOME dps checks are ok, but making every fight a dps check isn't what i call fun. I'm no battle programmer or anything but I remember enjoying the old raids (not in ffxiv specifically) for a good reason: it encouraged tactical knowledge and awareness rather than blunt dps checks. And 1-hit deaths.

I mean come on, Karazhan (yes the worst mmorpg of all time yadda yadda) had a chess battle and I loved that raid so much i would pug every week for it (yes, it was possible still), just for the fun factor and because i genuinely loved that raid for how well designed it was. I never felt frustrated while doing that and i don't really recall any dps check in there (if it did, it was so well hidden I never noticed.).

If they want dps checks as the main gimmick for the game, I'm fine with that too: I won't touch any raid content. But as DarkB said: if you put dps checks, support a dps parser. If you don't put it, think of something else for making fights challenging. Dps checks aren't the only tactics to go for!

I agree with this. I enjoy fun mechanics over dps checks.

My biggest problem with this game is endgame stuff seems to be focused around strict mechanical precision in a strict rotation so you can beat an enrage timer. Mechanics that are present are usually (not always) based on stepping out of bad things and failure to do so is a one hit KO (at least there is not a limit on battle rezzes in this game outside the mana cost). I find that more stress inducing than enjoyable.

I would love to see more fun mechanics. World of WarCraft has always easier rotations, fewer one shot kills (they still exist but aren't the focal point of most bosses) but much more varied and interesting raid encounters as a result. Karazhan is fantastic. I was also very fond of Ulduar.

My dream would be to see rotations streamlined, fewer one shot mechanics and bigger, more varied boss encounters to provide the actual challenge. Less "robot precision" more "think on your feet".

Until we see a shift to that sort of design, however, it seems a shame to not give damage dealers tools they need to actually approach the encounters the way they're supposed to. Dummies and similar are fine...provided you ignore that my class exists. Meet the Black Mage. We ignite the atmosphere on dummies but when actual mechanics force us to move like any other class our dps can plummet to sometimes catastrophic levels (I HAD A FRACTION OF A SECOND LEFT ON BLIZZ IV BUT ENOCHIAN FELL OFF WHY DOES-*incoherent hour long tangent*).

I know my own numbers because reasons. I have never and would never throw numbers at anyone else but to me live evaluation is much more accurate and important than the dummy due to how drastically different my class's performance can be on a dummy vs a real encounter.

[Eylirria]

If you are going to have DPS Checks, you are going to need to make available tool for people to diagnose and improve performance - or not stop others from doing so.
If you aren't going to have DPS Checks, you might as well remove Damage Dealer as a role - because then you just want to bring more healers or more tanks (people that can fill up hp bars, and people that are sturdy vs hits if/when they mess up mechanics)

Healers don't get a pass when they are bad.
Tanks don't get a pass when they are bad.
I shouldn't get a pass if I'm bad.

A parser is a tool. A tool in itself is not good nor evil. A hammer can either help you build a house or bash in a skull.
The hammer itself isn't toxic. So don't tell us we can't have hammers just because your super sensitive self is worried a toxic person is going to use one to hit you on the head with it - they don't need one.

SquareEnix already follows through with reports of people being abusive while using parsing tools - and as far as I am aware, they do a great job at it.
I don't see why that would change.

Leave hammers alone.

[Erys]

IF you create a game that EVERYONE pay with money to play, you SHOULD make every content in it, cleareable/enjoyable/playable by everyone who gives you money.

So no hard or expert modes in any other games, because not everyone can clear Dante Must Die, Revengeance, Heroic (or whatever is hard in WoW) or even competitive leagues in CS. Because everyone has to be able to win! YAY! SAFE SPACES!

[DarkB]

So no hard or expert modes in any other games, because not everyone can clear Dante Must Die, Revengeance, Heroic (or whatever is hard in WoW) or even competitive leagues in CS. Because everyone has to be able to win! YAY! SAFE SPACES!

Way to extrapolate text out of context without even bothering to grasp concepts explained for the 3th time now.
I explained that its related to the amount of people NON clearing a content due to being too hard because of dps check, this was RECOGNIZED by the developers themselves which agreed on what we are all saying and tuned them down. So yeah to their eyes, everyone has to be able to win, on top of that especially cause you are paying for it.

Not giving people tools to improve > fail dps check > fail to clear content. Comprende?