add an in game parser please!!!

[Kaurie]

On a general basis though, if you have less enmity than a sch, you suck and you get your scold

It is not uncommon for me to have #1 hate in Expert Roulette as a SCH (yes above the tank). Them SCH Deeps!

Only drgs are sensible cases, but horrible drgs don't use elusive jump usually so the error margin is reduced.

Am I misunderstanding this, or are you saying only DRGs DPS is not represented properly by the enmity bar? Also SMN (quelling + pet), BLM (quelling), BRD (quelling), MCH (quelling?), DRG (elusive jump), NIN (smoke screen, shadewalker), WHM (shroud), AST (stances), SCH (pet)

Unless it is a critical lack of dps (read: certain afk behavior), as long as they don't make you wipe, you are all good to go. Nothing makes me cringe more than recruitment messages that read; 'low dps will be kicked'. Note this is a farm group, and while I understand that you want it to work out, a guy sitting on 1200 can still make you wipe or getting himself killed because he refuses to move to avoid damage. I once had a group with 2 monks and a dragoon (M4 it was) and they were whoring for dps so bad that we wiped every single time. Not because they had low dps, au contraire, they just refused to move for certain mechanics. Once after 3 wipes we had to dimiss a bard because he just couldn't play and we couldn't clear the last boss in the dungeon. And many a time did I dimiss another healer or tank if they didn't do their job. So it is up to you guys to make the game work, not a meter.

I don't think anyone suggests that having high DPS means you can ignore mechanics. We already can see if someone is ignoring mechanics, we don't already see if they are doing DPS. It's not an either/or, we want both.

[Kuwagami]

It is not uncommon for me to have #1 hate in Expert Roulette as a SCH (yes above the tank). Them SCH Deeps!

SCH dps is at something like 60% of what a dps can do though. And that's by staying 100% of the time not healing at all (which happens only rarely).

Am I misunderstanding this, or are you saying only DRGs DPS is not represented properly by the enmity bar? Also SMN (quelling + pet), BLM (quelling), BRD (quelling), MCH (quelling?), DRG (elusive jump), NIN (smoke screen, shadewalker), WHM (shroud), AST (stances), SCH (pet)

DRG is the only dps which can cut his enmity in half. Quelling, smoke screen and shadewalker aren't that meaningful (when people even use them at all...) over a full 5-13 minutes long fight.
SMNs are a bit trickier because of the pet, but they still should have at least more hate than the SCH at equal gear.

*Cough*Shadewalker&Smokescreen*Cough&

Once people use it more than when being begged to (oh, just like goad /s ) I'll count them. Like, seriously. I never see NIN use these unless they are in serious progression mode.

[Kaurie]

SCH dps is at something like 60% of what a dps can do though. And that's by staying 100% of the time not healing at all (which happens only rarely).

I know haha, but seriously this is a common occurence :\ It's 60% single target though, SCH can have great AoE.

DRG is the only dps which can cut his enmity in half. Quelling, smoke screen and shadewalker aren't that meaningful (when people even use them at all...) over a full 5-13 minutes long fight.
SMNs are a bit trickier because of the pet, but they still should have at least more hate than the SCH at equal gear.

I don't think you should underestimate quelling, smoke screen and shadewalker! I think everyone should have more hate than SCH, it just isn't always the case.

You hit the nail on the head here:

On a general basis though, if you have less enmity than a sch, you suck and you get your scold

It's just sad that so many people fit into that category

[AlphaDragoon]

Once people use it more than when being begged to (oh, just like goad /s ) I'll count them. Like, seriously. I never see NIN use these unless they are in serious progression mode.

Dunno what kinda chump NINs you're used to but I use Shadewalker and Smoke Screen even in 4-man dungeons. There's no reason not to.

[Sirus222]

That's all nice and stuff, but then why are bad tanks and bad healers singled out when they suck ?

Oh right, because they suck. Why should the dps be special snowflakes with no way to tell them they suck ?


Thankfully though, the enmity bar is a preliminary way to see that a dps is horribly bad. Only drgs are sensible cases, but horrible drgs don't use elusive jump usually so the error margin is reduced.

On a general basis though, if you have less enmity than a sch, you suck and you get your scold

*Cough*Shadewalker&Smokescreen*Cough&

[Synrin]

Can you guys stop using Faust in the wrong way? Him being a dps check has nothing to do with dps meter. He doesn't let you go depending on your dps, you kill him in the right time to avoid a one-shot mechanic. So at no point is he measuring your dps output, he is just programmed to get stronger and stronger the longer he is alive. So you either kill him asap, or you don't. A person putting out their max dps on a static boss may not put out the same amount on any other part, where they have to move or dodge things or do certain other mechanics. So Faust is the poorest example you can give.

[Yahallo]

the game has already dps parsers , Fuast was a dps check , Adds are used as dps checks mostly ( slimes in a3s , same goes for the water ball ) , sephirot with the adds is both dps and heal check.

Midas normal have some dps checks , execution , the dps jail with the add , the cat's hearth

if u fail u wont see who is the "weak" link , and thats working as intended , u just need to ask the whole party to improve without pointing fingers. Something that SE is trying to avoid at all cost.

This really only works if everyone is at a similar level. Doesn't work too well when everyone but one person is pulling their weight. The three other DPS may only have relatively marginal improvements that they can do while that one dps can have an entire world worth of improvement. Diminishing returns, it's a thing. Sometimes you have to point fingers, if someone isn't pulling their weight others shouldn't be pulling it for them.

[Andrea]

I too have never understood why DPS get a free pass compared to Healers and Tanks. Then people wonder why their dps queues are so long compared to them...

As a healer if people die 90% of the time I will get flamed,
As a tank if i lose agro consistently I will again get flamed and told i suck ect
As a DPS? 90% of the time people dont notice and if they do need to be careful what they say because parsers.

Also doesn't take into consideration how easier it is for a bad player to skate by as a DPS compared to a tank or healer.

[Synrin]

Unless it is a critical lack of dps (read: certain afk behavior), as long as they don't make you wipe, you are all good to go. Nothing makes me cringe more than recruitment messages that read; 'low dps will be kicked'. Note this is a farm group, and while I understand that you want it to work out, a guy sitting on 1200 can still make you wipe or getting himself killed because he refuses to move to avoid damage. I once had a group with 2 monks and a dragoon (M4 it was) and they were whoring for dps so bad that we wiped every single time. Not because they had low dps, au contraire, they just refused to move for certain mechanics. Once after 3 wipes we had to dimiss a bard because he just couldn't play and we couldn't clear the last boss in the dungeon. And many a time did I dimiss another healer or tank if they didn't do their job. So it is up to you guys to make the game work, not a meter.

[WeekendSoja]

Dps checks and parsers go hand in hand! Parsers tell you if the team is putting out enough damage to pass that wall. Anyone can push 1+2+3 but an optimized rotation flutters around like Muhammad Ali, 1+2+alt9+3+5+ctrl7+6+8+alt6+however else you want to put it. Back on point, parsers are meant to enhance gameplay like others have said in previous posts. The guy that does 1200 and wipes the party is like the guy who does 225 and also wipes the party. Thing is, 1200 is doing respectable dps that could potentially get the group past the dps check where as the 225 guy jumped into the party head down, butt up...and we all know how that ends lol. Someone's going to get screwed...and it's the seven others wondering who's Emu.